1  

 

          2  

 

          3            NEVADA STATE BOARD OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS

 

          4                         BOARD MEETING

 

          5                               

 

          6                                

 

          7                               

 

          8                               

 

          9                               

 

         10                               

 

         11                               

 

         12                                

 

         13                      FRIDAY, MAY 30, 2003

 

         14                          RENO, NEVADA

 

         15  

 

         16  

 

         17  

 

         18  

 

         19  

 

         20  

 

         21  

             

         22  

             

         23   Reported by:  MILLIE TERRY HOENSHELL, CCR No. 303

 

         24  

 

 

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          1                     A P P E A R A N C E S

             

          2  

             

          3   THE BOARD:             CHERYL A. HUG-ENGLISH, M.D.

                                     President

          4  

                                     JACULINE C. JONES, Ed.D.

          5                          Vice President

             

          6                          PAUL A. STEWART, M.D.

                                     Secretary/Treasurer

          7  

                                     DONALD H. BAEPLER, Ph.D., DSc

          8  

                                     STEPHEN K. MONTOYA, M.D.

          9  

                                     SOHAIL U. ANJUM, M.D.

         10  

                                     JOEL N. LUBRITZ, M.D.

         11  

                                     ROBIN L. TITUS, M.D.

         12  

                                     MARLENE J. KIRCH

         13  

                                     CHARLOTTE M. BIBLE, J.D.

         14                          Assistant Chief Deputy

                                     Attorney General

         15  

                                     RICHARD J. LEGARZA, J.D.

         16                          General Counsel

             

         17                          LARRY D. LESSLY, J.D.

                                     Executive Director/Special Counsel

         18  

                                     MAUREEN E. LYONS

         19                          Executive Executive Director

              

         20                          CASEY MILLER

                                     Administrative Assistant

         21                          to the Executive Director

             

         22                          ROBERT A. FRANTZ

                                     Financial Manager

         23  

 

         24  

 

 

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          1         RENO, NEVADA, FRIDAY, MAY 30, 2003, 11:30 A.M.

 

          2                            --o0o--

 

          3  

 

          4              (Whereupon the meeting was already in

 

          5   session.)

 

          6              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  We are in open

 

          7   session.  We've had some discussions in closed sessions

 

          8   about salaries and evaluations for various staff members. 

 

          9              I guess we need to wait a second because we

 

         10   have -- Here they are. 

 

         11              At this time I would entertain a motion on

 

         12   staff compensations.

 

         13                DR. BAEPLER:  I will so move that the

 

         14   compensation be an average of six percent, some to be in

 

         15   the form of bonuses, as well as some of them to be built

 

         16   into base salaries.

 

         17              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  And then I do think

 

         18   we had a couple of people that we had equity changes on

 

         19   that are a little bit different.  That would be on Doug

 

         20   Cooper, who is our chief investigator, as well as Lynette

 

         21   Mason, who will be changing per position title a bit as

 

         22   well.  So that with the exception of those two, the rest

 

         23   of the salaries with staff would be at six percent, if

 

         24   I'm understanding Dr. Baepler, and then for the

 

 

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          1   administrative staff, which would include Larry Lessly,

 

          2   Richard Legarza, and Maureen Lyons, those would be done

 

          3   in the form of a bonus; is that correct?

 

          4              DR. BAEPLER:  Correct.

 

          5              DR. LUBRITZ:  Second.

 

          6              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  That is your motion, and

 

          7   that was seconded.  Any further discussion?  All in

 

          8   favor? 

 

          9              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

         10              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed? 

 

         11              The Chair votes in favor of the motion and the

 

         12   motion carries.

 

         13              MR. LESSLY:  Madam President, to clarify that,

 

         14   Mr. Frantz is also administrative staff.

 

         15              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  I'm sorry.  That would be

 

         16   also, in addition, a bonus.

 

         17              MR. LESSLY:  Okay.

 

         18              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  Moving on to

 

         19   considering -- I guess, Larry, this is your agenda item,

 

         20   considering board payment for insurance premiums.

 

         21              MR. LESSLY:  Let me explain this.  As you

 

         22   know, we are not really the State agency, but we

 

         23   participate in the State benefit package, including PERS

 

         24   and insurance.  The health insurance situation with state

 

 

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          1   employees gets progressively worse.  Apparently now,

 

          2   effective July 1, it appears that employees who wish to

 

          3   keep a $500 deductible as opposed to going to a $1000 or

 

          4   $2500 deductible will be required to pay -- I believe

 

          5   it's $14.36 each per month in order to maintain that

 

          6   deductible at a $500 level.  The deductible itself is

 

          7   going from 250 to 500.  So to even keep the 500, you have

 

          8   to pay $14.36.  My calculation is that if the Board paid

 

          9   that on behalf of its employees, it would cost $3,000 a

 

         10   year.  I'd like to ask you to do that.

 

         11              DR. BAEPLER:  Question.  Are they only

 

         12   self-undersigned or are any of them HMOs that are

 

         13   private?

 

         14              MR. LESSLY:  It doesn't make any difference.

 

         15              DR. BAEPLER:  HMOs, I know you made a $500

 

         16   deductible on HMOs, do you have to also pay that monthly 

 

         17   fee?

 

         18              MR. LESSLY:  My understanding, this is going

 

         19   to be -- And this is only the tentative figure, 14.36. 

 

         20   It may vary a few cents one way or the other.

 

         21              DR. BAEPLER:  Yeah, I was expecting 25.  I

 

         22   would move that we pick that up for them.  We have

 

         23   options to go into several HMOs that are private or

 

         24   choose your own doctor under the --

 

 

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          1              MR. LESSLY:  I think that got limited this

 

          2   time too.

 

          3              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Yes.  In the North it is. 

 

          4   In the South --

 

          5              DR. BAEPLER:  I think we have two options in

 

          6   the South.

 

          7              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Right.  And that's been

 

          8   changed in the North.  So I think this $14 would be

 

          9   fairly consistent for everybody up here. 

 

         10              DR. BAEPLER:  Yes.            

 

         11              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  So was there a second to

 

         12   that motion?

 

         13              MS. KIRCH:  I'll second it.

 

         14              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  It has been motioned

 

         15   and seconded to have the Board pick up that insurance

 

         16   premium that we think will be around $14 a month per

 

         17   employee.  Any further discussion?  All in favor? 

 

         18              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

         19              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  The chair votes in favor of

 

         20   the motion and the motion carries.

 

         21              MR. LESSLY:  The next two items under open

 

         22   session on personnel we can probably discuss together. 

 

         23   We have a lot of people who are going to be leaving this

 

         24   year.  Mr. Frantz, our financial manager, is going to be

 

 

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          1   retiring.  He will be on board with us through August the

 

          2   15th.  That will get us through the audit that he handles

 

          3   with our CPA auditing firm and will also get us through

 

          4   the financial things involved in handling the year as far

 

          5   as biennial registration is concerned.  He's then going

 

          6   to take annual leave that he has accumulated until

 

          7   September the 30th. 

 

          8              Previously, we have talked about how to handle

 

          9   his departure, and you authorized me to put an

 

         10   administrative assistant in that position.  We've put

 

         11   Ms. Peeples in that position.  She has been training

 

         12   under him.  She will end up doing most of the clerical

 

         13   aspects of the financial management.  The other aspect of

 

         14   Mr. Frantz's job is investment decisions.  That's done by

 

         15   three people.  It's done by him, it's done by me, and of

 

         16   course the final decision is made by the Board's

 

         17   treasurer. 

 

         18              My proposal is that when he actually leaves

 

         19   that the job description for the executive director be

 

         20   changed to have the executive director make that

 

         21   recommendation only to the secretary/treasurer, who would

 

         22   make the final determination.  So what it boils down to

 

         23   is that job would be divided between an administrative

 

         24   assistant to do the actual clerical type work that's

 

 

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          1   involved in the payroll, the writing of checks, and that

 

          2   sort of thing, and the financial management, more of that

 

          3   duty would fall to the executive director and ultimately

 

          4   to the secretary/treasurer.  We have already done that. 

 

          5   I'm simply telling you that the training situation is

 

          6   fine and that will happen on August 15th when he departs. 

 

          7              In addition, Elizabeth Larragueda, who is our

 

          8   chief licensing specialist, has moved to Las Vegas. 

 

          9   You'll recall she took time out to have a child.  She is

 

         10   on maternity leave.  She has been able to come back

 

         11   periodically for a few days at a time to help with

 

         12   training and to help with some special projects that are

 

         13   occurring down in licensing.  She will be formally off of

 

         14   our payroll on July 15th.  It is my intention on Monday

 

         15   to promote Lynette Mason, who is a licensing specialist

 

         16   in that division, to the position chief licensing

 

         17   specialist.  So that will cover Ms. Larragueda's

 

         18   departure. 

 

         19              Now, the person to my left and my deputy is

 

         20   probably departing in about six months or so.  As you all

 

         21   know, Maureen is going to California, hopefully, assuming

 

         22   her husband passes the bar.  She'll either be moving to

 

         23   California or attending his funeral if he doesn't pass

 

         24   the bar.  However, she is going to be departing, which

 

 

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          1   leaves me short a deputy. 

 

          2              You had asked me a year ago to begin to look

 

          3   for replacements for both my position and Mr. Legarza's

 

          4   position.  We told you a year ago that this would be our

 

          5   last year.  I would be happy to spend a little more time

 

          6   in Bend, Oregon, and I want to do that next summer.  So I

 

          7   think we need to come up with some deputy positions for

 

          8   both of these. 

 

          9              Mr. Legarza's got a problem as far as actually

 

         10   getting legal work done now as a result of some things

 

         11   that happened with respect to AB-1 and the case load.  

 

         12   We also have a situation where I'm not sure that the

 

         13   medical reviewer is going to be able to handle the work

 

         14   load that has arisen as a result of a lot of changes, so

 

         15   I'm going to ask you to do this:  To authorize the

 

         16   creation of a position of deputy general counsel, deputy

 

         17   executive director/special counsel, and an additional .40

 

         18   FTE medical reviewer.  I would at that point attempt to

 

         19   fill those positions.

 

         20              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  Well, I'd like to

 

         21   make a couple of comments about the need for these

 

         22   positions.  I think that we really are at a critical

 

         23   stage with this Board that we need to have some

 

         24   additional staff to handle the additional work load that

 

 

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          1   this Board has seen in the past six months or so, and I

 

          2   think that it's very clear that these positions are

 

          3   needed, and I would certainly support that. 

 

          4              And, Larry, in your job description, you

 

          5   definitely have the authority to hire additional staff

 

          6   that's needed, and I appreciate your letting the Board

 

          7   know what you feel the requirements are at this point.

 

          8              MR. LESSLY:  It would be my intention, just so

 

          9   you know, to hire someone at not more than 100,000 in the

 

         10   deputy general counsel's position, not more than 120,000

 

         11   in the deputy executive director/special counsel

 

         12   position, and I think we already have the money budgeted

 

         13   to cover Mr. Legarza and I having overlapped until we

 

         14   depart this year.  And I believe that Dr. Stewart, when

 

         15   he talks about the budget in a few moments, has $50,000,

 

         16   and it may take a little more to cover an additional .40

 

         17   FTE, medical reviewer.  Those would be the salary ranges

 

         18   that it would be my intention to hire them.

 

         19              DR. BAEPLER:  I would move that we authorize

 

         20   those salary ranges.  We don't have to authorize the

 

         21   hiring, because he already has that.

 

         22              DR. TITUS:  Second.

 

         23              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  There is a motion to

 

         24   authorize those salaries, which again would be 100,000

 

 

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          1   for a deputy counsel and 120,000 for a deputy executive

 

          2   director.  Is there any further discussion?  I'm sorry,

 

          3   and $50,000 for us to appoint .40 additional reviewers. 

 

          4   Any further discussion?  All in favor?

 

          5              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

          6              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed? 

 

          7              The chair votes for the motion and the motion

 

          8   carries. 

 

          9              I would encourage, Larry, you, as current

 

         10   executive director, to proceed with that as quickly as

 

         11   possible, because I think with the need is here now. 

 

         12   This Board really needs some additional help.  I think

 

         13   with the requirement since AB-1 and the special session

 

         14   that have been imposed on this Board, we need some

 

         15   additional staff to help us out.  So I would go forward

 

         16   as quickly as possible.

 

         17              MR. LESSLY:  I will assure you that's my

 

         18   intention.

 

         19              DR. MONTOYA:  Ms. President, I'd like to point

 

         20   out that it's very nice that they don't leave us high and

 

         21   dry by just taking off and leaving us, that there is

 

         22   going to be some overlap to get us used to working with

 

         23   the new counsel, and I just want to express appreciation

 

         24   for that consideration.

 

 

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          1              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  I think that's well said. 

 

          2   Steve and I would second that, that it's really critical

 

          3   that we have some training to get people in here for a

 

          4   significant length of time as an overlap to learn these

 

          5   positions before there are changes in those as well. 

 

          6              Okay.  I guess -- Is there anything else,

 

          7   Larry, that you want to bring up under personnel session?

 

          8              MR. LESSLY:  I don't believe so.

 

          9              DR. LUBRITZ:  Dr. English?

 

         10              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Yes.

 

         11              DR. LUBRITZ:  Given that we have the increased

 

         12   load, is now the time to consider additional

 

         13   investigators?

 

         14              MR. LESSLY:  We have the authority already to

 

         15   hire an additional investigator and administrative

 

         16   assistant.  We haven't been able to do that because the

 

         17   legislature is in session and we have no clue what kind

 

         18   of money we would have left.  I think there is enough

 

         19   money, when Dr. Stewart talks about the budget, to even

 

         20   add an additional investigator. 

 

         21              But it would be our intention when the

 

         22   legislature adjourns, if we've got money, we are going to

 

         23   immediately hire another investigator and another

 

         24   administrative assistant.  Back in the investigative

 

 

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          1   division, you authorized that, oh, maybe six months ago,

 

          2   and Mr. Legarza has been holding off on that because of

 

          3   the legislative session.

 

          4              MS. KIRCH:  And I presume you are going to

 

          5   replace Lynette?

 

          6              MR. LESSLY:  No.  Let's back up.  I need to

 

          7   explain that to you.  Sometime ago when Elizabeth

 

          8   announced that she was taking maternity leave and that

 

          9   she and her husband were moving to Las Vegas, you

 

         10   authorized us to double-slot.  We have four positions

 

         11   down there, and you authorized us to carry a fifth

 

         12   position until her departure, so there is a promotion to

 

         13   her position, but we'll drop from five to four.

 

         14              MS. KIRCH:  Okay.

 

         15              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  Any further questions

 

         16   about staff changes or changes in position or additional

 

         17   staff recruitment? 

 

         18              Okay.  It's now five after noon.  I know we

 

         19   have been going for a long time.  I think lunch is here,

 

         20   and I think that we will at this point take a recess for

 

         21   lunch, and we'll be back at about 1:00 o'clock.

 

         22              (Luncheon recess).

 

         23              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  We're going to get started

 

         24   again, and we're going to take the agenda a little out of

 

 

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          1   order.  We are going to go to Agenda Item Number 8 and

 

          2   have Dr. Stewart do the --

 

          3              Doug, can you hear us down there? 

 

          4              MR. COOPER:  Yes, it's fine.

 

          5              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  Thank you.  You're

 

          6   looking a little lonesome down there.

 

          7              MR. COOPER:  Yeah, but the air conditioner is

 

          8   on.

 

          9              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  Good. 

 

         10              We are going to move to the  secretary-

 

         11   treasurer report.  Dr. Stewart is going to tell us about

 

         12   that.

 

         13              DR. STEWART:  Okay.  In front of you, the

 

         14   first thing we are going to go through, and we are going

 

         15   to be somewhat pedestrian about this, is the balance

 

         16   sheet as of June 30th, 2003.  Unfortunately, in the past,

 

         17   that confused the legislature, because you'll see on the

 

         18   side is accrual basis as of 5/29.  So this is how we are

 

         19   as of today. 

 

         20              If I misspeak, Mr. Frantz, you be sure to send

 

         21   up a smoke signal. 

 

         22              We have $4,500,000 in CDs, and we have a total

 

         23   amount of cash of $4.984 million, which sounds like we

 

         24   are very flush.  But in reality, by the time we get done

 

 

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          1   with this, I will show you that we're not.  So the total

 

          2   assets are 4.987. 

 

          3              What we have been doing is taking money and

 

          4   putting it into CD investments or into government paper

 

          5   and scheduling the maturity of these so that somewhere

 

          6   between 150- and $200,000 a month matures and is rolled

 

          7   over into the checking account to pay the monthly

 

          8   expenses of the Board.  When we have made money on the

 

          9   biennial registration, that money has been put into CDs

 

         10   and investments to mature sometime rateably over the next

 

         11   24 months.  So that's how we manage our money. 

 

         12              Unfortunately, the interest rates vary between

 

         13   1.9 and 2.3 percent.  Some of what we do is government

 

         14   paper, and it's callable.  We have been called two or

 

         15   three times on some of our larger investments in

 

         16   government paper, and then we try and reinvest those.   

 

         17   As you'll see here, on the liabilities side, we run an

 

         18   accrual basis, not a cash basis, because that's the way

 

         19   governments do things. 

 

         20              There is 45,000 in vacation.  There is 105,000

 

         21   in deferred revenue for the month of June.  The

 

         22   $1,132,200 is registration fees so far taken in, and that

 

         23   money will start to be spent on July 1st.  The other

 

         24   numbers are a little small. 

 

 

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          1              Capital, retained earnings, or amount of money

 

          2   that really is in the bank that is unallocated is the

 

          3   $3,358,000.  So that's actually the amount of money that

 

          4   we have.  The other money is money that will be spent in

 

          5   the new biennium. 

 

          6              If we go to where we are on the 29th of May in

 

          7   regard to our budget, you'll see that we expected to

 

          8   collect a million-four in M.D. registrations, 35,000 in

 

          9   PA registrations, and 79,000 in respiratory care.  And

 

         10   what we actually have done is done a little better in

 

         11   M.D. fees, 1.476; PA is a little better.  We got all of

 

         12   the respiratory care practitioners' money earlier on, so

 

         13   we really haven't increased that number. 

 

         14              The total income so far for 11 months is

 

         15   1,954,000.  The budget was 1,991,000.  We are $37,000

 

         16   short. 

 

         17              On the expense side, we pay about $100,000 a

 

         18   month in running the employee side of the business,

 

         19   including taxes and retirement and insurance that the

 

         20   Board pays for these employees.  So when we are done at

 

         21   12 months, the budget will be 1,263,000, and we will

 

         22   probably be at 1,180,000, so we are slightly under budget

 

         23   for the salaries that we paid. 

 

         24              Travel out of state, we're 10,000 below. 

 

 

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          1   Travel in state, which does not include this meeting,

 

          2   we're about 10,000 below.  So we have done well there. 

 

          3   If you go through what we have budgeted versus what we

 

          4   have spent, most of the numbers are really, really, very,

 

          5   very close to what was budgeted.  By the end of June, the

 

          6   527- that we are currently at, we'll probably add another

 

          7   48,000 to get us to 565- and the budget was 583-.  So we

 

          8   are less than a percentage off there. 

 

          9              We have been trying to fix the computers and

 

         10   upgrade them and get everything done so that we could be

 

         11   web appropriate.  There is another $17,000 to pay before

 

         12   the end of this year to do that, so our budget for

 

         13   computers was 75-, but we ended up paying 130-.  So the

 

         14   net effect is, with where we are in income and where we

 

         15   are in expense, we are going to book about $20,000 of

 

         16   income to add to that 3,358,000 that we have as capital. 

 

         17   So it still looks like we're doing pretty good. 

 

         18              Now, we need to go to the budget for next

 

         19   year.  And where we are on the budget for next year is we

 

         20   believe that we are going to have $2,000,000 in M.D.

 

         21   registration fees.  Currently, we only have 1.132.  But

 

         22   the last month is always real busy, and we believe we'll

 

         23   be able to put 1,026,000 of M.D. registration fees for

 

         24   2003-'4 and have another 1,026,000 for 2004 and '5.  So

 

 

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          1   our total income will be about a million and a half. 

 

          2              You'll remember that our cost of doing

 

          3   business employee-wise, because we are going to have to

 

          4   increase the staff on the investigative side, is going to

 

          5   go up.  So our cost of doing business strictly on

 

          6   personnel is going to be a million-seven.  We are

 

          7   estimating the travel remains about the same.   

 

          8              Because of the increase in the number of staff

 

          9   and the increase in the amount of investigations that are

 

         10   going to have to occur, even if we don't have anymore

 

         11   filings against physicians -- we'll talk about that in a

 

         12   few minutes -- we are suggesting that the office cost is

 

         13   going to go up and office printing is going to go up. 

 

         14   530 is audit.  And previously the audits for the

 

         15   financial side of this has been $15,000 a year, more or

 

         16   less.  This year we're putting $100,000 in. 

 

         17              There was a legislative mandate that we

 

         18   thought was very important to appropriate funds for to

 

         19   make sure that we had the money if the legislature wanted

 

         20   either an audit of licensing procedures, financial

 

         21   procedures, or disciplinary procedures.  And Larry felt

 

         22   that a hundred would be approximately correct for that. 

 

         23   The investigative number has gone up, and we will explain

 

         24   why we have gone from 35 to 60.  Legal has gone up some. 

 

 

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          1   All of those three will be taken care of, and I'll

 

          2   explain what those are.  All four of those, the hearing

 

          3   ones. 

 

          4              We have increased the size of the office so

 

          5   the rent is a firm number.  We have increased the size of

 

          6   advertising and public relations, and we have to talk

 

          7   about that issue, especially in view of the question of

 

          8   whether we should be advertising to the public.  You'll

 

          9   remember last time we increased the amount of money to

 

         10   diversion.  The hospital association was giving them less

 

         11   money.  They needed more money to do their mission in

 

         12   diversion.  We went from 75,000 to 110,000. 

 

         13              And then there is the final thing, 548,

 

         14   competency.  We put $100,000 there.  I have no idea if

 

         15   that's a good number or a bad number, I have no idea if

 

         16   it's high or low.  I have no idea.  But we have put that

 

         17   number in there because sooner or later we are going to

 

         18   have to do something with competency, and that is a good

 

         19   guess about what we need.              

 

         20              Below the line, 35,000 for equipment and

 

         21   continuing the $75,000 a year keeping the computer system

 

         22   running suggests that at least for this time, because of

 

         23   all of the things that have come together in a perfect

 

         24   storm in regard to the Board, the cost of doing business

 

 

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          1   next year is $3,000,000.  That will mean that we will dip

 

          2   into reserves $1,488,000, which will mean at the end of

 

          3   next June, the current 3.358 will be dropped by 1.488,

 

          4   which basically leaves us with $2,070,000.  No, I did

 

          5   that wrong.  1.870. 

 

          6              In the second biennium there should be some

 

          7   savings.  Hopefully, our case load will come under

 

          8   control.  Hopefully, we will not have to finish upgrading

 

          9   the computer, and as we learned today, there will be

 

         10   different mixes of employees, and some of the employee

 

         11   costs will go down.  Even so, if the total expense

 

         12   continues at what it is, and we lose another million-two

 

         13   or million-three in regard to the cost of doing business,

 

         14   we will end up with $500,000 in reserves at the end of

 

         15   the biennium. 

 

         16              It was generally thought that the correct

 

         17   number of reserves for the Board was one year of expense. 

 

         18   This will give us two months of expense at the end of

 

         19   2005.  So this is very, very, very close.  The reserves

 

         20   just go away.  If the Board continues to have to

 

         21   function, the 2,500 renewal fees, which I won't have to

 

         22   set, the rest of you will, will have to go up to be able

 

         23   to support the Board. 

 

         24              Some people may say that a budget is just

 

 

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          1   that, a budget, you can always save money here, you can

 

          2   always save money there.  I will remind you that the

 

          3   biennial budget as prepared is only off by $22,000 for

 

          4   the prior two years.  So the budget is really what it

 

          5   costs to run-run the organization. 

 

          6              There are contingencies that are out there

 

          7   that are not included in the budget, because they're

 

          8   contingencies, and I didn't know, Mr. Lessly didn't know

 

          9   how to budget for them, not knowing if we are going to

 

         10   have to do them.  

 

         11              There is in Senate Bill 97 a requirement, if

 

         12   it passes, that we in some way have to start funding the

 

         13   medical-legal screening panel.  In Senate Bill 250, there

 

         14   is the requirement to video-conference, as we are doing

 

         15   today, and the estimate of setting that up and making it

 

         16   work is $50,000 for the office on Terminal Way. 

 

         17              In Senate Bill 250 there is the request that

 

         18   an office be started in Las Vegas, and it blows

 

         19   everybody's mind when you suggest that an office in Las

 

         20   Vegas would cost $100,000, but if you're paying somebody

 

         21   $3,000 a month, that's $36,000.  If you're buying a

 

         22   $1.50-a-square-foot office space at 2,000 square feet,

 

         23   that's $3,000 a month.  That is another $36,000, and

 

         24   you're already at $72,000, and you haven't opened the

 

 

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          1   office.  You have just rented it and hired somebody to

 

          2   work there.  You then have to put equipment in it and

 

          3   made it functioning.  So you could easily spend $100,000

 

          4   more to maintain, run, and have an office in Las Vegas

 

          5   that's open during the work week. 

 

          6              Senate Bill 250 also asks for a study dealing

 

          7   with medical malpractice, and anybody's guess of what

 

          8   that would cost is anybody's guess.  The numbers have

 

          9   ranged from 1-, 3- or $400,000 since it will be a

 

         10   legislative request to really figure out what's going on

 

         11   in regard to malpractice rates, malpractice prices.  So

 

         12   those are unfunded contingencies out there that we have

 

         13   to wait until the legislature is done and the governor

 

         14   signs laws to know how much, if any, of this is needed to

 

         15   be done. 

 

         16              So that's the budget.  I believe the budget is

 

         17   really very close to reality as we sit here today,

 

         18   without the unfunded liabilities that may be requested by

 

         19   the legislature.  And now I'll ask are there any

 

         20   questions about the budget, budget where we have been and

 

         21   where we think we are going.

 

         22              DR. BAEPLER:  The reduction in the reserves 

 

         23   was anticipated when we lowered the fees.

 

         24              DR. STEWART:  Absolutely true.

 

 

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          1              DR. BAEPLER:  A little more than we had

 

          2   possibly expected, but that could be offset if we get an

 

          3   increase in the number of PAs, doctors; new people coming

 

          4   into the state could offset this a little.

 

          5              DR. STEWART:  We have budgeted fees and new

 

          6   application fees at the same rate that has been present

 

          7   over the last five years, which is a variation between

 

          8   325 and 375 doctors per year.  If we believe that the

 

          9   malpractice issues will get better, maybe more physicians

 

         10   will come.  If we believe that it's still a disaster,

 

         11   maybe we will have less physicians coming.  But the

 

         12   numbers here are budgeted for that general number of 325

 

         13   to 375 new physicians coming to the state, becoming

 

         14   active doctors and paying active fees. 

 

         15              When we had gone from $600 to $400, without

 

         16   the other things that we didn't think were there because

 

         17   they weren't there when we did that, we had hoped to end

 

         18   the biennium, 2005, with a million dollars in the bank,

 

         19   with the belief that the cost of running the Board was

 

         20   going to be about $200,000 a month, and we'd have about

 

         21   five months in reserves.  Now, with the extra costs, it

 

         22   looks like we have about two months in reserves.

 

         23              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Other comments about the

 

         24   budget?  I think that was a very detailed and very good

 

 

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          1   explanation of the budget.  And I think you can see by

 

          2   Dr. Stewart's going through, that really the budget is

 

          3   very close, and it's hard to predict, because there are a

 

          4   lot of things that we can't -- you know, that we don't

 

          5   know about or that we haven't counted on that do come up. 

 

          6   But if you look over the last couple of years and see how

 

          7   close the budget is to the actual expenses of the Board,

 

          8   I think you can project for this next year that it would

 

          9   likely be the same. 

 

         10              And I think it's clear from Dr. Stewart's

 

         11   report that within the next biennium our reserves have

 

         12   substantially decreased.  Actually, decreased quite a bit

 

         13   below what the recommendation is to have a year of

 

         14   reserves for the Board's operation.  But that's what it

 

         15   looks like at the present time. 

 

         16              Any other concerns, comments about the

 

         17   proposed budget?  If not, I do need a motion to approve a

 

         18   tentative budget for the next fiscal year.

 

         19              DR. MONTOYA:  So move.

 

         20              MS. KIRCH:  Second.

 

         21              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  There is a motion and a

 

         22   second to approve the budget for fiscal year 2003 through

 

         23   June of 2004.  All in favor?

 

         24              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

 

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          1              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed? 

 

          2              The chair votes in favor and the motion is

 

          3   carried.

 

          4              Thank you for that report, Paul.  I think

 

          5   since we have got you in the mode, do you want to do your

 

          6   investigative report as well?

 

          7              DR. STEWART:  Okay.  I will pass 68 names to

 

          8   my right.  These are cases that we have closed.  We

 

          9   interviewed six or seven physicians and that was what we

 

         10   did at the investigative committee and have asked those

 

         11   physicians to do certain things for us.  So those are the

 

         12   cases that are closed. 

 

         13              You'll note that generally in the past we have

 

         14   been closing in the 121, 30, sometimes as high as 60

 

         15   cases.  This number is generally half of that.  The

 

         16   investigative committee is current with everything that

 

         17   has been presented to us, and this is -- the next comment

 

         18   is not a slap at either Dick or the investigators.  It's

 

         19   just the reality of the situation.  Because of the

 

         20   difficult times, because of the malpractice prices,

 

         21   because of the special work that was required by

 

         22   everybody in the investigative arena in an attempt to get

 

         23   a handle on numbers, and doctors moving out of state, and

 

         24   legislative requests and executive requests, the staff

 

 

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          1   has been somewhat distracted from their primary job of

 

          2   doing investigations and presenting the investigations to

 

          3   the investigative committee. 

 

          4              We had a discussion earlier that the three

 

          5   investigators each have somewhere between 80 and 90 and

 

          6   100 cases that they are currently working on, so

 

          7   somewhere between 240 and 300 cases are currently being

 

          8   worked upon to present to -- a percentage of those will

 

          9   go to the September investigative committee. 

 

         10              The status of the investigative case load is

 

         11   going to change.  You'll remember that we get about 800

 

         12   citizen complaints a year.  Out of that 800, about 450 to

 

         13   500 come under what the State Board of Medical Examiners

 

         14   can do and can investigate, and out of that number we

 

         15   find about 20 instances a year where filings are made. 

 

         16   The medical-legal screening panel no longer exists.  All

 

         17   that material has either than transferred to courts or is

 

         18   still moving through the medical-legal screening panel,

 

         19   plus there has been new cases filed since October 1st. 

 

         20              Dr. Havens greatly helped us by giving us a

 

         21   list of where to start, at least the first three or four

 

         22   months of the October, November, December, January kind

 

         23   of time frame, and letters that were sent out suggesting

 

         24   that if you think you might have been sued, maybe you

 

 

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          1   could check and really report it to the Board.  Those

 

          2   letters have gone out and everybody has appropriately

 

          3   answered those letters.  We estimate that there are 400

 

          4   cases out there that we need to review. 

 

          5              In the past we didn't see any of those until

 

          6   the medical-legal screening panel made their

 

          7   determination.  Without the medical-legal screening

 

          8   panel, the legislative mandate is that the Board

 

          9   investigate those, look for trends, look for sanctionable

 

         10   offenses, make sure that people are not hiding in the

 

         11   medical-legal screening panel with multiple episodes of

 

         12   suits against them. 

 

         13              There is a difference between a legal suit

 

         14   investigation and a citizen complaint investigation, not

 

         15   in how they are handled, but in the time frame that it

 

         16   takes to get an answer.  The investigative committee, 

 

         17   when looking at a citizen complaint, can look at it and

 

         18   say it doesn't come under our jurisdiction or this is a

 

         19   problem of demeanor or a problem with fees which we don't

 

         20   have ability to do anything with, and we're able to

 

         21   gather the information fairly expeditiously and can make

 

         22   a decision usually by the next investigative committee

 

         23   meeting if there was a harm, if there was a foul, if

 

         24   something needs to be done.  And I wouldn't suggest that

 

 

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          1   those are easy cases, but that's what we know how to do,

 

          2   and we have done them fairly well in the past. 

 

          3              We did seven legal cases at this IC, and they

 

          4   are entirely different.  You have a plaintiff's attorney

 

          5   telling you what he thinks his side of the story is, you

 

          6   have a defendant's attorney telling you what he thinks

 

          7   his side of the story is, you have a doctor giving an

 

          8   affidavit, you have a doctor supporting the defendant

 

          9   doctor in his affidavit, and sometimes you have to go out

 

         10   to peer review.  So the time preparing the case, getting

 

         11   it ready to discuss it with the investigative committee

 

         12   is longer than it is with a citizen complaint.  And the

 

         13   medical records have to be found and you really have to

 

         14   figure out if the doctor really did anything or if the

 

         15   plaintiff's lawyer is just presenting his case in the

 

         16   best light to the plaintiff.  And that takes a lot of

 

         17   time. 

 

         18              And that's my worry for the future forward and

 

         19   the future I see.  If we're really 500 of those, quote,

 

         20   "behind," and the legislature thinks we should be getting

 

         21   current on those, and we already have the 300 citizen

 

         22   complaints in the system, this system really can get

 

         23   bogged down. 

 

         24              So I think that it's really very appropriate,

 

 

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          1   once we figure out what our liabilities are because of

 

          2   the legislature in regard to monetary things, to hire one

 

          3   new investigator and an administrative assistant and see

 

          4   how the case load works, and then later on consider

 

          5   hiring another assistant and another investigator in an

 

          6   attempt to get this backlog, which really isn't a

 

          7   backlog, it's just all those cases that we know are there

 

          8   that we still don't even have pieces of paper on because

 

          9   the lawyers are doing their lawyering in the courts and

 

         10   we don't have anything to review yet. 

 

         11              So I think the work of the IC, come September

 

         12   and come December, is greatly going to be higher than it

 

         13   has been before.  We laugh about the amount of materials

 

         14   you carry on the plane coming back here, and Dr. Montoya

 

         15   managed to bring an entire suitcase with him.  He had his

 

         16   clothes in another bag, but he had an entire suitcase of

 

         17   paperwork that he was bringing back up here. 

 

         18              I think the way that we do business needs to

 

         19   change.  The amount of work that the IC is going to do I

 

         20   think is going to more than double.  And I think that one

 

         21   investigative committee cannot handle the work load in

 

         22   any way, shape, or form.  And I am suggesting that there

 

         23   be a change in the secretary/treasurer job description to

 

         24   suggest that the secretary/treasurer will be in charge of

 

 

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          1   one investigative committee, and I would recommend that

 

          2   the Board constitute a second investigative committee,

 

          3   each having at least two doctors and one public member,

 

          4   so that the work load at least over the next calendar

 

          5   year can be handled twice as fast as it normally would be

 

          6   handled.  I don't think the Board can medically nor

 

          7   politically stand the possibility of being, quote, "800

 

          8   cases in the box," not being moved along quickly.

 

          9              DR. BAEPLER:  Was that a motion?

 

         10              DR. STEWART:  Yes, that's a motion.

 

         11              DR. BAEPLER:  I'll second it.

 

         12              DR. STEWART:  I really believe that the IC as

 

         13   previously constituted was busy.  I think one IC just

 

         14   can't do it, and two might not be able to do it without

 

         15   streamlining of the process.  We talked earlier about

 

         16   hiring more staff to do this, we talked earlier about

 

         17   getting an assistant to Larry to certainly help with

 

         18   this, as Maureen was leaving.  We talked about looking

 

         19   for a deputy to Dick. 

 

         20              Steve made the comment that it's very nice

 

         21   that they are not leaving and they are training people to

 

         22   do their job.  I'm going to agree with that and make the

 

         23   observation that the work load has more than doubled and

 

         24   we can sop up the extra help very quickly in this.

 

 

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          1              So I think that's where we are headed.  It has

 

          2   been a bad six months in regard to the aggravation of the

 

          3   doctors in the State in regard to unsurety of what

 

          4   legislation would appear.  The money situation will now

 

          5   be tight.  The work load will now be more.  We have a lot

 

          6   of work to do in the next year.  And that's my report.

 

          7              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Thank you, Dr. Stewart.  I

 

          8   think that's an excellent summary of where we are and the

 

          9   concerns that really we have been talking about all

 

         10   morning, not only from the staff perspective of the

 

         11   Board, but also the work load of the Board members doing

 

         12   investigative committee work.  And I think the suggestion

 

         13   of having a second investigative committee is a good one,

 

         14   and I know there has been a motion and a second.  I

 

         15   wonder if there is any further discussion from other

 

         16   Board members.

 

         17              DR. TITUS:  Well, are you looking at having a

 

         18   three-member board, two investigative committees, and

 

         19   then maybe a three-member IC, internal affairs committee,

 

         20   or are you looking at --

 

         21              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  I think what the motion is

 

         22   is to have two separate ICs.  One would be chaired by the

 

         23   secretary/treasurer, and a second IC would be chaired by

 

         24   another Board member that would be appointed.

 

 

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          1              DR. TITUS:  Right now it says I think that the

 

          2   chairman of the IC has to be a secretary/treasurer,

 

          3   according to our --

 

          4              DR. BAEPLER:  He suggested we change that.

 

          5              DR. TITUS:  Right, but are we ready to -- I

 

          6   mean, it's just more than a motion.  We have to do some

 

          7   changes in our job descriptions and everything. 

 

          8              MR. LESSLY:  If you are going to have two ICs,

 

          9   you need a motion to change the language and the

 

         10   secretary/treasurer's job description from "chairs the

 

         11   IC" to "chairs and IC."

 

         12              DR. BAEPLER:  Paul used that exact wording.  I

 

         13   assume that was incorporated into the motion.

 

         14              DR. STEWART:  So the way I would see this

 

         15   happening is three people are on an IC and there are six

 

         16   adjudicators for that IC, three more people are in an IC,

 

         17   there are six adjudicators for that IC.  I really wanted 

 

         18   to start out and say there would be three investigative

 

         19   committees, but I don't know how you could do that

 

         20   because the president theoretically can't sit on an

 

         21   investigative committee.

 

         22              DR. BAEPLER:  Two should handle it, because

 

         23   you know it takes a while to work these things through

 

         24   the pipeline.

 

 

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          1              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  I think we better start with

 

          2   two.  We may really confuse ourselves if we go to three. 

 

          3   But I do think that two makes a lot of sense, from the

 

          4   perspective of sharing the work load and getting cases

 

          5   brought before this Board in a more expedient manner. 

 

          6              So in further answer to your question, Robin,

 

          7   I think it would mean that the secretary/treasurer chairs

 

          8   one and then there is a second IC with a second chairman

 

          9   appointed by the president.  And so those two bodies

 

         10   would function independent of each other as ICs, and

 

         11   there would be different adjudicators for cases from each

 

         12   of those committees.

 

         13              DR. TITUS:  Is it the state regs that requires

 

         14   that the secretary/treasurer be an M.D.?

 

         15              MR. LESSLY:   There is no requirement that the

 

         16   secretary/treasurer be an M.D.  The only legal

 

         17   requirement for an investigative committee is that it

 

         18   have at least one public member on it.

 

         19              DR. BAEPLER:  It could have two.

 

         20              MR. LESSLY:  It could have three.

 

         21              MR. BAEPLER:  Yes.

 

         22              DR. MONTOYA:  What if they just had one large

 

         23   IC rather than two ICs.

 

         24              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Well, if we had one large

 

 

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          1   IC, then we wouldn't have enough adjudicators. 

 

          2             MR. LESSLY:  That one committee would probably

 

          3   meet about five days a month.

 

          4              MR. LEGARZA:  The problem would be, it's clear

 

          5   statutorily that anyone who serves on an IC cannot serve

 

          6   as an adjudicator.  And if you're going to have to have

 

          7   more people serve on ICs, I think you have to have two

 

          8   separate ICs so that you can identify -- because in every

 

          9   complaint that I file, I identify in that complaint who

 

         10   the members of that IC are.  If we had six on that IC,

 

         11   we're going to get ourselves in a position where we may

 

         12   be criticized about some people on the IC looking at a

 

         13   case even maybe that they shouldn't have looked at.  So

 

         14   if you're going to have two ICs, I think there have to be

 

         15   two separate and distinct ICs. 

 

         16              I think that's going to be a little difficult

 

         17   from the administrative standpoint, but Doug's pretty

 

         18   much got it set up.  Larry, Doug and I have talked about

 

         19   how we can allocate the cases, for instance, simply on an

 

         20   ABC, but kind of break them down evenly before they are

 

         21   allocated about so many that are peer review cases, so

 

         22   many that are recommended for closure, so many for

 

         23   discussion, but I think the two ICs need to meet separate

 

         24   and apart from each other, and that is going to be

 

 

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          1   something that we're going to have to worry how we are

 

          2   going to coordinate, because now you've got your IC

 

          3   members saying Larry stole my IC time, now he stole all

 

          4   Friday from me, so my IC people had to come up here

 

          5   yesterday.  So now he's got three members of the IC who

 

          6   they're devoting three days now to a meeting.

 

          7              DR. BAEPLER:  We also held an interim meeting 

 

          8   about a month ago.

 

          9              MR. LEGARZA:  We had a telephone conference

 

         10   call meeting, plus we've always had interim meetings, so

 

         11   our IC is now meeting eight times rather than six times. 

 

         12   So, you know, you're asking a lot of your Board members

 

         13   to serve on an IC and -- anybody that's ever served on an

 

         14   IC knows what it's going to be, and if not, you're going

 

         15   to find out soon.  But I think you have to have two,

 

         16   Doctor.

 

         17              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  How does everybody else feel

 

         18   about that?  Marlene? 

 

         19              MS. KIRCH:  Uh-huh.  It sounds like it would

 

         20   work.  It would solve a lot of the problems that we're

 

         21   seeing.  And at the point in time that you no longer need

 

         22   the second committee, then you just would not have to

 

         23   appoint that committee.  If we get to the point that our

 

         24   case load is manageable by one, then you'd have the one.

 

 

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          1              DR. BAEPLER:  And at the present time, not

 

          2   only is there a huge number, but we get to the point at

 

          3   every meeting where we rush.  You just can't avoid it. 

 

          4   It would really be a pleasure to see a reduced case load

 

          5   with two committees so we would have a little bit more

 

          6   time for deliberations.

 

          7              MS. KIRCH:  And felt that you were looking at

 

          8   all the issues that you needed to look at.

 

          9              MR. LEGARZA:  And what Dr. Stewart didn't tell

 

         10   you, and that you all know too, is that in addition to

 

         11   that 740 approximate cases -- what did we bring in,

 

         12   500 -- it's probably even in excess of 500 now, we get

 

         13   about 15 a week also that come in, so there's another,

 

         14   what, 60 a month adding onto that.  So that figure in a

 

         15   month's time is going to be 800, and then it's going to

 

         16   be 860.  So we are opening -- Angie told us yesterday she

 

         17   is opening 10 to 15 new cases currently every week.  So

 

         18   that number of 740 is just a jumping-off spot.

 

         19              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  And we need to keep in mind

 

         20   that this is one of the most important functions of this 

 

         21   Board, is to do a thorough job of investigating

 

         22   complaints that come before us.  So I think we do need to

 

         23   take steps to make sure that we have adequate staff and

 

         24   adequate Board members involved in the process so that we

 

 

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          1   can keep up with it.  And what it will mean if we go to

 

          2   this, I mean you all need to be aware of that, is that

 

          3   six Board members will be actively involved in the

 

          4   investigating committee process. 

 

          5              I think that that has some real positive

 

          6   merits to it in that I think when you're on an

 

          7   investigative committee it really is the central part of

 

          8   the workings of the Board, and you really find out what

 

          9   it takes to investigate a complaint, the time involved,

 

         10   the detail involved in reviewing that material.  And so

 

         11   it really does I think help as far as your understanding

 

         12   of the whole process to be on an investigative committee. 

 

         13   But it's a lot of work, too.

 

         14              So I think there is a motion and a second.  Is

 

         15   there any further discussion on that?  If not, all in

 

         16   favor?

 

         17              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

         18              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed? 

 

         19              Chair votes in favor of the motion and the

 

         20   motion carries.  So we will talk a little later either

 

         21   today or tomorrow about committee appointments to both of

 

         22   those.

 

         23              MR. COOPER:  Madam President, this is Doug in

 

         24   Las Vegas.

 

 

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          1              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Hi, Doug.

 

          2              MR. COOPER:  Can I ask the members sitting on

 

          3   the side to use their microphones.  They are not coming

 

          4   through.

 

          5              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Thank you for the reminder. 

 

          6   We are still on the learning curve of this process. 

 

          7   Appreciate it.

 

          8              MR. COOPER:  Thank you.

 

          9              DR. STEWART:  There are going to be some

 

         10   complaints filed.  We don't see how we can not file these

 

         11   complaints.  You'll remember the medical society knows of

 

         12   many doctors that have left, are leaving the State, and

 

         13   unfortunately they didn't notify us of these things.  The

 

         14   mailings in January were an attempt to get everybody to

 

         15   tell us where they were.  The Board unfortunately cannot

 

         16   do its job if they don't know where the doctor is

 

         17   actively practicing. 

 

         18              There is a moving box full of returned mail in

 

         19   regard to letters that we have sent doctors for their

 

         20   biennium registration packets which continually come back

 

         21   to us because we do not have the right address and we

 

         22   have trouble finding the doctor, to either send him the

 

         23   material he needs to answer or the material he needs to

 

         24   be relicensed by July 1st.  Remember we only have about

 

 

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          1   30 days left in the registration period. 

 

          2              The box is big.  The number of returned pieces

 

          3   of mail is really bad, and this is even after we tried to

 

          4   find everybody in January with mailings of the newsletter

 

          5   and the mailings regarding the hearings on continuing

 

          6   competency and the letters to everybody reminding them of

 

          7   their reporting responsibilities under AB-1. 

 

          8              So Dick is going to have a number of

 

          9   complaints for violation of telling us where you are

 

         10   actively practicing and where the medical records are

 

         11   actively kept. 

 

         12              In addition, we need to see a lot more

 

         13   renewals or requests to become inactive before June 30th

 

         14   or there will be a tremendous number of July 1st cease

 

         15   and desist orders of the practice of medicine,

 

         16   remembering that there is no grace period, and if you are

 

         17   not licensed by July 1st, you are not allowed to

 

         18   practice.  And Dick will have to prepare a great number

 

         19   of "you are not allowed to practice" comments to be

 

         20   delivered to the doctors on the 1st and 2nd of July. 

 

         21              So the investigative committee agreed that we

 

         22   didn't see any other way of doing this.  We tried in

 

         23   January, we tried in March to figure out where everybody

 

         24   is, and we still don't know where everybody is.

 

 

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          1              MR. LEGARZA:  And every newsletter we send out

 

          2   talks about it, our web site talks about it,

 

          3   Mr. Mathias's web site reminds all of his members,

 

          4   everybody that looks at it, and Angie's box has probably

 

          5   150.  We're always talking about the extra work the

 

          6   investigative staff has to do, but that woman has located

 

          7   them all on the telephone.  And how many telephone calls

 

          8   she has made and they still keep coming in. 

 

          9              So the investigative committee decided that it

 

         10   was about time, that maybe the only way we're going to

 

         11   make the point is at random select several physicians and

 

         12   file formal complaints against them.  That will get the

 

         13   word out.

 

         14              DR. MONTOYA:  File against them all.

 

         15              MR. LEGARZA:  Yes, sir.

 

         16              MR. LESSLY:  I think he can do that.  He's

 

         17   going to have a deputy.

 

         18              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  I just wanted to make

 

         19   a clarification too on that last motion that we've just

 

         20   approved, that it also included changing the job

 

         21   description of secretary/treasurer to the chair of one

 

         22   investigative committee.  So I just wanted to state that

 

         23   for the record, that that is incorporated into that

 

         24   motion. 

 

 

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          1              Thank you, Paul, and thank you, Investigative

 

          2   Committee.  I know this past year has been a tremendous

 

          3   amount of work, and we all know what it takes to prepare

 

          4   for these meetings, but if you can double that at least,

 

          5   time-wise, it's what they have been putting in.  So thank

 

          6   you for being willing to do that. 

 

          7              Okay.  We are going to skip back now to Agenda

 

          8   Item Number 7, that's our legal report, and I'll turn it

 

          9   over to Mr. Legarza.

 

         10              MR. LEGARZA:  The only thing I have is

 

         11   everyone is current with their terms and conditions of

 

         12   probationary status.  The basis I've been reporting on

 

         13   for several years now is still under concealment in the 

 

         14   Second Judicial District, and there have been two recent

 

         15   petitions for judicial review that have been filed.  One

 

         16   has been filed on behalf of Dr. Schmerler.  The

 

         17   allegation in that is that revocation of his license by

 

         18   the Nevada State Board of Medical Examiners was

 

         19   Draconian. 

 

         20              And one has been filed on behalf of Dr. -- I

 

         21   think it's pronounced Abiantunge.  So there are two new

 

         22   petitions for judicial review that have been filed, and

 

         23   we have already filed the record in the Second Judicial

 

         24   District Court, and we'll be filing the record in the

 

 

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          1   Eighth Judicial District Court on Abiantunge next week. 

 

          2              Dr. Schmerler was -- the allegation against

 

          3   Dr. Schmerler was that he was convicted of a felony and

 

          4   that the felony involved moral turpitude.  The felony

 

          5   that Dr. Schmerler was convicted of committing was income

 

          6   tax evasion, and the Board found him guilty of that

 

          7   felony, and also since it was a crime of moral turpitude,

 

          8   revoked his license. 

 

          9              Dr. Abiantunge's was a malpractice case.  He

 

         10   was found guilty of that.  The Board issued him a public

 

         11   reprimand, assessed him costs, and I think ordered him to

 

         12   take some additional CME, I believe.

 

         13              DR. STEWART:  Could I just say one thing? 

 

         14   There are, unfortunately, three doctors that are

 

         15   currently incarcerated.  The investigative committee has

 

         16   not forgotten those three doctors.  They still do hold

 

         17   licenses, but they are incapable of practicing on the

 

         18   citizens of the State of Nevada.  They have to be served

 

         19   and go through everything just as everybody else is. 

 

         20              One is incarcerated in Clark County with a

 

         21   grand jury indictment against him, but he has not had a

 

         22   trial.  So we really can't do anything with him.  But I

 

         23   wouldn't want anybody to think that we have forgotten

 

         24   about them.  The legal wheels just take a while to do

 

 

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          1   their thing.

 

          2              MR. LEGARZA:  The other one just got 

 

          3   convicted, and the third one is on -- at this time. 

 

          4              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Charlotte.

 

          5              MS. BIBLE:  I guess I don't have anything to

 

          6   report today.

 

          7              MR. LEGARZA:  You might get the Vegas one yet.  

 

          8   Be careful.  I'm thinking about it.

 

          9              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  All right.  Well, thank you

 

         10   both. 

 

         11              We'll move on then to -- back to Agenda Item

 

         12   Number 8, and the legislative update I'm going to

 

         13   postpone until tomorrow, with the hopes that perhaps

 

         14   Mr. Lee will be able to join us.  As you said earlier, he

 

         15   is very involved today with continuing legislative

 

         16   issues, so hopefully we'll be able to give a report on

 

         17   that. 

 

         18              Do we have Carol Bowers here for the

 

         19   diversion, or is she going to come tomorrow?

 

         20              MR. LESSLY:  No, but her written report is in

 

         21   your agenda book, or it's a hand-out.  I'm not certain.

 

         22              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  I don't remember seeing it. 

 

         23              MS. LYONS:  No, we just got it, and it's a

 

         24   hand-out.

 

 

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          1              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Is there a reason that Carol

 

          2   isn't here this meeting?  She usually comes.

 

          3              MR. LESSLY:  She had some conflict this

 

          4   meeting.

 

          5              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  I'll give everybody a

 

          6   moment to just review this.

 

          7              The report is basically -- it looks like

 

          8   things are running smoothly with diversion.  I don't see

 

          9   any real problems called to our attention.  Looks like as

 

         10   of May they have 23 participants in Northern Nevada, 41

 

         11   in the South, and there are five currently under

 

         12   investigation, which brings the total of participants to

 

         13   64. 

 

         14              As Dr. Stewart may have mentioned, at our last

 

         15   Board meeting we did up the amount that this Board

 

         16   contribute to the diversion program to $110,000, that

 

         17   will help them in a financial situation.  I think the

 

         18   Board has felt and continues to feel that this program

 

         19   certainly merits our support and that they are doing a

 

         20   good job. 

 

         21              Any comments about the report from Carol?  No

 

         22   comments.  Do I have a motion to approve the report then?

 

         23              DR. TITUS:  So move.

 

         24              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  There is a motion and a

 

 

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          1   second to approve the diversion report.  All in favor?

 

          2              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

          3              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed? 

 

          4              The chair votes in favor and the motion

 

          5   carries.

 

          6              And then we don't have our physician assistant

 

          7   committee member here today either, but we do -- I think

 

          8   there is a page going around -- does everybody have

 

          9   that -- for their committee report.

 

         10              This is actually interesting talking about the

 

         11   continued competency for PAs.  Looks like according to

 

         12   their letter here that every six years they need to

 

         13   retake that exam, which is called the PANCE exam,

 

         14   Physician Assistant National Certified Exam, as well as

 

         15   continued educational activities.  So that's interesting.

 

         16              DR. TITUS:  I like the last statement there.

 

         17              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Yeah.

 

         18              Any other comments or concerns about PA

 

         19   committee?  Do we need to approve those?

 

         20              MS. KIRCH:  So moved.

 

         21              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  And from our Respiratory

 

         22   Care Advisory Committee, I don't think we have anybody

 

         23   either.  And I don't think we have any additional written

 

         24   material from them either, do we ?

 

 

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          1              MR. LESSLY:  No.

 

          2              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  That brings us down

 

          3   to the last item under Agenda Item Number 8, and that is

 

          4   the federation annual meeting, and for those of you who

 

          5   were able to attend, I would like maybe someone to give

 

          6   us some feedback on that meeting.  Some of us weren't

 

          7   able to attend because we were dealing with some

 

          8   legislative issues.  So if Jackie or Paul or someone

 

          9   would like to give us some feedback.

 

         10              MS. JONES:  It was very interesting going as a

 

         11   delegate.  It's amazing how popular you become.  I made

 

         12   it a point to talk to every person who was running for

 

         13   office, and I had some questions prepared for them, which

 

         14   threw some of them.  But it was very interesting, and I

 

         15   enjoyed that part of it, actually. 

 

         16              I think it was a mandate from the San Diego

 

         17   meeting that we have a more interactive meeting, and they

 

         18   certainly did that this time.  We were able to

 

         19   participate in the groups that we were -- we were all set

 

         20   up to go to different groups, small groups, and Don led

 

         21   one of those, and did an excellent job.  In his, we had

 

         22   real cases, of course, names were not mentioned, and then

 

         23   the people at our table would decide whether we would go

 

         24   on with recommending a further action or not.  It was

 

 

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          1   very interesting. 

 

          2              Another one that I thought was really good,

 

          3   they had a panel that had several different members of

 

          4   different -- that have different functions throughout the

 

          5   medical community responding to a situation, and then

 

          6   they would each tell their perspective, and it was very

 

          7   interesting to hear how -- depending on what job they

 

          8   had, what their perspective was on this incident.  I

 

          9   found that very interesting. 

 

         10              I thought it was a good meeting.  Much better

 

         11   than the San Diego one.

 

         12              DR. BAEPLER:  I thought, too, that the topics

 

         13   were extremely varied.  The group session that I had, for

 

         14   example, was medical ethics in research.  I chose four

 

         15   research episodes around the country where the M.D.

 

         16   participants really were unethical.  Federal funds called

 

         17   off, and in one instance they were the medical faculty

 

         18   fired, and it was so bad that they fired the department

 

         19   chairman and the dean as well. 

 

         20              Medical boards have never looked at this, and

 

         21   it's just kind of a new dimension as to whether or not

 

         22   you want to ever get involved in ethics in medical

 

         23   research.  It's an exciting area and, of course, it mixes

 

         24   up PhD's with M.D.'s and groups we have no jurisdiction

 

 

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          1   over at all.  But, as usual, I think one of the big

 

          2   assets in going to a meeting like this is having informal

 

          3   conversations with board members from other states.  You

 

          4   can ask them, you know, what are you doing about this or

 

          5   that, and how does this work and that work, and I find

 

          6   that to be about as educational as the formal session.

 

          7              DR. TITUS:  One of the very hot topics back in

 

          8   Chicago was this whole maintenance of competency and

 

          9   many, many -- all the states are questioning and all the

 

         10   states are looking at it, and we'll talk about it later

 

         11   when we talk about our issue, but it was a concern that

 

         12   has been led to the committee that I've been appointed to

 

         13   on a national-wide basis looking into how can we help the

 

         14   State struggle with the struggles that we have right now

 

         15   on this whole concept of maintenance of competency and

 

         16   documents of competency.  And so we are hopefully going

 

         17   to come out with some ideas for all the states. 

 

         18   Everybody wants some suggestions.  As our PA so

 

         19   eloquently just stated, it's now ethical and professional

 

         20   and it's going to be mandated.  So that was a big issue.

 

         21              The other issue that I thought we needed to

 

         22   address before we go back wherever the next one is, I

 

         23   think in Washington, D.C. in the spring, each state was

 

         24   offered a chance to present its state, have a little

 

 

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          1   brochure, documentation, little power point presentation,

 

          2   and in the hallway there some of the states took

 

          3   advantage of that, about what's going on in your state. 

 

          4   Oklahoma had one, and Texas had one, and several of the

 

          5   states had a little power point, and they did a little

 

          6   session on that. 

 

          7              The networking is so good that -- it really

 

          8   does help the share of getting this monthly or quarterly

 

          9   program that we get from the federal -- from the

 

         10   federation.  We don't always look at that, and I thought

 

         11   the way they presented the states -- they had a little

 

         12   break-out session on that for a half hour where you could

 

         13   go interact with all the other states, and they actually

 

         14   had some brochures and stuff.  And I was thinking that it

 

         15   would be a good thing, depending on where we go with

 

         16   ours, to think about maybe looking at doing that next

 

         17   year for the State of Nevada.  I think we have a lot

 

         18   going on that we should be proud of, and lots of people

 

         19   from different states were coming up to us asking us

 

         20   about our -- where we're at, because they know of many of

 

         21   our struggles, and we're setting some precedents, and

 

         22   they wanted to see where we were.  So I think it would be

 

         23   good to have Nevada represented.

 

         24              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  It sounds like it was a

 

 

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          1   really good meeting and that we were represented well by

 

          2   our Board members there.  I think that we need to

 

          3   remember that the feedback that we've had from the

 

          4   federation, and I think the comments that have been made

 

          5   is that we are a leader Board in many ways, and that

 

          6   people do look to this Board at the federation level as

 

          7   well.  So I think that it's great to see such good

 

          8   representation from this Board at that level. 

 

          9              Okay.  Let's move on to Agenda Item Number 9,

 

         10   which is our executive staff reports.  And Larry, I'll

 

         11   turn it over to you. 

 

         12              MR. LESSLY:  I have one request for staff

 

         13   attendance in the educational meeting, and that is from

 

         14   Lynette Crockie, who Monday will become the chief license

 

         15   specialist, to attend the National Board for Respiratory

 

         16   Care annual meeting in Kansas City on September the 19th

 

         17   and 20th and they pay her travel expenses.  So if I could

 

         18   have a motion for her to be authorized to attend.

 

         19              MS. KIRCH:  So move.

 

         20              DR. MONTOYA:  Second.

 

         21              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  All in favor?

 

         22              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

         23              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed?

 

         24              The chair votes in favor and the motion

 

 

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          1   carries.

 

          2              MR. LESSLY:  Let me ask Maureen to do the

 

          3   second one, but I'll just go ahead and finish up the

 

          4   others real quickly, if you don't mind. 

 

          5              The contract with Nevada Broadcasters

 

          6   Association, material on the number of runs we've been

 

          7   having on radio and TV is in your material.  I would

 

          8   recommend that you approve that again for three months,

 

          9   July the 1st through September 30th.  Once the

 

         10   legislature has adjourned, the Broadcasters Association

 

         11   is going to start working on some additional ads,

 

         12   hopefully the kind that are no cost to us, because we

 

         13   don't have any developmental costs thrown into the budget

 

         14   for additional ads.  We did increase the budget for

 

         15   attempting to get more runs for the ads we have. 

 

         16              So I would request that you approve that for

 

         17   another three months at the rate of $5,000 a month, with

 

         18   the understanding that I'll be back to you at the next

 

         19   meeting with some indication about additional spots.

 

         20              DR. MONTOYA:  Do we actually need to advertise

 

         21   anymore?

 

         22              MR. LESSLY:  Well, we get an awful lot of

 

         23   calls saying, "I'm calling because of the ad, and I need

 

         24   this information on a doctor," yeah.

 

 

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          1              MS. JONES:  I think it's important that we

 

          2   continue to do it.  I get feedback.  That's about the

 

          3   only thing that anybody ever mentions to me about the

 

          4   Board, something that they've heard either through the TV

 

          5   or the radio and actually called because they've heard it

 

          6   either on the TV or the radio.  I think it's a good

 

          7   thing.

 

          8              DR. MONTOYA:  If we're going to advertise,

 

          9   maybe we don't need the web site.

 

         10              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  I think that we need to

 

         11   have different ways -- people access in different ways,

 

         12   and I think the web site is -- a lot of people really

 

         13   like to access information that way.  I think other

 

         14   people hear information via TV and radio and so forth, so

 

         15   I think both have a value.

 

         16              DR. STEWART:  Some of the senators thought it

 

         17   was a waste of money.  Would you just allow us to discuss

 

         18   that for a moment?

 

         19              MR. LESSLY:  I think that's an appropriate

 

         20   thing to discuss.

 

         21              DR. BAEPLER:  What, the web site or the

 

         22   advertising?

 

         23              DR. STEWART:  The advertising.

 

         24              DR. LUBRITZ:  When we first started

 

 

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          1   advertising, it was my impression that we were going to

 

          2   try it, and it did not have to be in perpetuity, but that

 

          3   we would see what response we got.  But to my knowledge,

 

          4   I think once we began that, I don't think that we have

 

          5   ever discontinued it. 

 

          6              So my question is, as Steve's, do we need it

 

          7   anymore?  We have certainly gotten lots of publicity,

 

          8   albeit not what we would like to see, but I think

 

          9   everybody knows that we are here, certainly all the

 

         10   legislators know that we are here.

 

         11              MR. LESSLY:  That's not true.  Some of the

 

         12   legislators say they have never seen one of our ads and

 

         13   say they don't see any point in us running ads and

 

         14   spending that.

 

         15              DR. LUBRITZ:  I don't mean on the television,

 

         16   I mean in the legislature.  So I think it might be of

 

         17   value to withhold it for a while and see what happens. 

 

         18   Certainly, with Dr. Stewart's comments on what's

 

         19   happening to our budget, this may be one of the places,

 

         20   since all of our costs are increasing, it may be one of

 

         21   the places where we don't have it for a quarter or two or

 

         22   three or four quarters and see how we do, and if it's

 

         23   necessary, reinstitute it.

 

         24              MR. LESSLY:  I'm not certain that you have

 

 

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          1   that opportunity.  Once you terminate your contract with

 

          2   Nevada Broadcasters Association, there is no obligation

 

          3   to take you back.  And then the last thing you want to do

 

          4   is decide you want to do advertising again and then be

 

          5   forced to go on the commercial market in order to do

 

          6   this, because you are going to spend an awful lot more

 

          7   than $5,000 a month.  So I guess my caution to you is be

 

          8   real sure that's what you want to do.

 

          9              MS. JONES:  You know, I'm not so sure that

 

         10   everybody is well versed on what the Board does,

 

         11   including the legislature, and I think that this is

 

         12   really the only time that we speak to the general public

 

         13   about what we do.  Otherwise, I don't think they have a

 

         14   clue what we do.  And at least this gives them some

 

         15   avenue, somebody who is just sitting down watching

 

         16   television, which we all do sometime or other, gives the

 

         17   general public a place to go if they have a -- you know,

 

         18   if they want to know something about their doctor.

 

         19              MS. KIRCH:  The other thing is, if they don't

 

         20   know -- a lot of people new to the state, whatever,

 

         21   everybody doesn't have internet access, and some of

 

         22   people that may want to know how to report incidents, if

 

         23   they see it, maybe they will understand there is a way

 

         24   for them to do it.

 

 

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          1              MR. LESSLY:  I guess one of the ways I would

 

          2   tell you I know it's effective is probably because of the

 

          3   efforts of Dr. Montoya in doing the Spanish BSA.  Our

 

          4   receptionist speaks Spanish, but I've heard her at least

 

          5   several times a day not having to do that with people who

 

          6   have heard an ad.  So I guess, Dr. Montoya, you would be

 

          7   sort of shooting yourself in the foot if you stop doing

 

          8   this.

 

          9              DR. STEWART:  I know we hear from the doctors

 

         10   that also watch television that it's an affront to the

 

         11   profession and that we are asking the citizens, the

 

         12   public, the patients to file complaints about the

 

         13   doctors.  But I've read the scripts of every one, and

 

         14   I've looked at these at 2:00 o'clock in the morning when

 

         15   I'm up checking to make sure that everybody is still

 

         16   breathing in my house, and I don't think we have ever

 

         17   said in any of these, "Call us up and tell us that your

 

         18   doctor did X, Y and Z wrong."  But that is still the

 

         19   interpretation of the medical profession.

 

         20              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Joel.

 

         21              DR. LUBRITZ:  There are various types of

 

         22   advertising, TV being one.  What I'm suggesting is that

 

         23   if we are going to continue to advertise, then perhaps we

 

         24   could explore other types of advertising.  For instance,

 

 

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          1   lots of people read newspapers.  So would it be less

 

          2   expensive reaching a large number of people once every

 

          3   week or two weeks to have an article in the newspaper,

 

          4   the Sunday paper?

 

          5              MR. LESSLY:  I can tell you the answer to

 

          6   that.  No, it would not be less offensive.

 

          7              DR. LUBRITZ:  Well, we don't have to spend the

 

          8   money.  We could get someone to interview -- like they

 

          9   have in this section, that section --

 

         10              DR. BAEPLER:  I think you would have to buy ad

 

         11   space, probably.

 

         12              MR. LESSLY:  My suggestion would be don't stop

 

         13   it until you know whether or not you can start it again

 

         14   if you want it.  Do it for three more months.  Let's have

 

         15   Mr. Fisher from the Nevada Broadcasters Association here

 

         16   at the next meeting and talk about it with him.

 

         17              DR. LUBRITZ:  Or just decrease the amount.

 

         18              MR. LESSLY:  Sure.

 

         19              DR. BAEPLER:  Don't some states have a law, a

 

         20   regulation that this has to be posted in every doctor's

 

         21   office?

 

         22              MR. LESSLY:   Yes.

 

         23              DR. BAEPLER:  Texas, I think --

 

         24              MR. LESSLY:  Several states. 

 

 

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          1              DR. BAEPLER:  Several states.  The medical

 

          2   board, the phone number and so on?

 

          3              MR. LESSLY:  In some states you're required to

 

          4   post in your office, in your waiting room, in a

 

          5   conspicuous location, the fact that you're licensed by

 

          6   that state's board of medical examiners, and if the

 

          7   patients who read that notice have a complaint about you,

 

          8   here is the number they need to call.

 

          9              DR. BAEPLER:  Yeah, that certainly hits the

 

         10   target. 

 

         11              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  I think we need to keep in

 

         12   mind too that, you know, one of the concerns that we've

 

         13   heard certainly in the last two months is that the public

 

         14   needs more access to this Board.  And I think that

 

         15   certainly this is one way to do that.  Perhaps we need to

 

         16   look at eventually changing the ads or updating the ads

 

         17   or doing a different ad, because I think they do lose

 

         18   their effect after they have been the same one over and

 

         19   over again for several years.  But I think the purpose in

 

         20   notifying them of what this Board does and what we're

 

         21   about and how to access it, that it's important to get

 

         22   out. 

 

         23              And maybe there are some other ways we can

 

         24   look at doing that.  But I think for right now, I think

 

 

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          1   the feedback that we've gotten from the Board office and

 

          2   from people that have seen it is that it's working, and

 

          3   that people are finding out about us and finding out what

 

          4   what we do and how they can contact us if they need to. 

 

          5   So personally, I don't think we need to make any major

 

          6   change right now.

 

          7              MR. LESSLY:  And Joel, I'm certainly not

 

          8   advocating at all that any more money be spent on

 

          9   developmental costs.  And you and I were both on that

 

         10   committee that did that last ad, and you know what that

 

         11   cost.  I mean this stuff is not cheap.  This is tens of

 

         12   thousands of dollars to come up with a commercially

 

         13   acceptable professional ad.  And I'm not willing to

 

         14   suggest that we even do that, that the increase in the

 

         15   budget for the advertising was intended to attempt to

 

         16   increase the amount of times these ads would be run and

 

         17   to develop some ads at the cost of Nevada Broadcasters

 

         18   Association, not this Board, as they did with

 

         19   Dr. Montoya's ad, which in effect cost us nothing.  So

 

         20   what I'm saying is if you want to make some changes, you

 

         21   ought to bring Mr. Fisher from the Nevada Broadcasters

 

         22   Association in here and talk about what it is you want to

 

         23   do.  So I'd suggest you let it go for three more months. 

 

         24   We can only do it on a quarterly basis anyway, and then

 

 

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          1   bring him in here and let's put him on the next agenda

 

          2   and hash it out.

 

          3              DR. LUBRITZ:  I'd like to make that in the

 

          4   form of a motion.

 

          5              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.

 

          6              MS. JONES:  I second it.

 

          7              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  So there is a motion to

 

          8   accept the current contract as stated for advertising,

 

          9   and then at our next Board meeting in September, bring

 

         10   him forward to discuss any changes that we want to make. 

 

         11   And that was seconded.  All in favor?

 

         12              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

         13              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed?  Chair votes in

 

         14   favor; motion carries.

 

         15              DR. MONTOYA:  Can I ask for union scale next

 

         16   time?

 

         17              DR. STEWART:  The money is in the residuals.

 

         18              MR. LESSLY:   As Dr. Skully used to say, we're

 

         19   just doing the Lord's work.

 

         20              On the status of additional office space,

 

         21   consideration of additional office loication, we have

 

         22   completed the move of all the files to the new location

 

         23   on the first floor of the building.  The lease is

 

         24   extended to 2009, the investigative space has been

 

 

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          1   revamped so that there is now room for new investigators

 

          2   as well as an additional space for our existing

 

          3   investigative staff.  That has been completed. 

 

          4              On the consideration of additional office

 

          5   locations, you have talked about the necessity for an

 

          6   office in Las Vegas, I'd like to have you refer that to

 

          7   staff and we will come up with something for you.

 

          8              MS. KIRCH:  In your consideration of a

 

          9   location in Las Vegas, have you considered your executive

 

         10   suite office type area?

 

         11              MR. LESSLY:   That's what we had before.  I

 

         12   haven't considered anything, and I think that would be a

 

         13   wonderful project for my new deputy, whoever he may be.

 

         14              MS. KIRCH:  Or she.

 

         15              MR. LESSLY:  Or she.

 

         16              DR. BAEPLER:  I would really like to suggest

 

         17   that if we do go ahead with that, that we get an office

 

         18   that either has a conference room associated with it or

 

         19   has one accessible in the building.

 

         20              MR. LESSLY:  That's what we had before. 

 

         21              DR. MONTOYA:  I like this.

 

         22              MR. LESSLY:  I guess I'll need to motion to

 

         23   refer that to staff if that's what you now want to do.

 

         24              MS. KIRCH:  I so move.

 

 

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          1              DR. MONTOYA:  I'll second.

 

          2              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  All right.  There is a

 

          3   motion and a second to refer to staff the consideration

 

          4   for additional office location.  All in favor?

 

          5              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

          6              DR. LUBRITZ:  Can I ask a question?

 

          7              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Joel. 

 

          8              MR. LUBRITZ:  Are there any spaces available

 

          9   at the state building?

 

         10              MR. LESSLY:  I don't know.

 

         11              DR. BAEPLER:  I've heard they are pretty

 

         12   cramped, but I don't know.  It would be nice.  They have

 

         13   a lot of parking space there.

 

         14              MR. LESSLY:  That is obviously something we

 

         15   would look into.

 

         16              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Any further comments?  All

 

         17   in favor?

 

         18              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

         19              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed?  The chair votes

 

         20   for the motion and the motion carries. 

 

         21              MR. LESSLY:  As far as the status of biennial

 

         22   registration, as of 5:00 o'clock yesterday we have

 

         23   licensed 2,507 active licenses and 647 inactive.  We are

 

         24   over half way, with a month to go.  Probably the smartest

 

 

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          1   thing we did was start the registration early this year. 

 

          2   It has taken a tremendous load off of the staff. 

 

          3              We will have a panic, obviously, again in the

 

          4   month of June, as we always expect to, but I don't think

 

          5   the panic will be nearly what it has been in the past. 

 

          6   So we're more than half way there.  We would anticipate

 

          7   about 5,000 active licensees, including those practicing

 

          8   in Nevada and those holding active licenses and not

 

          9   practicing in Nevada.  The inactive, I'm not sure.  I

 

         10   would think that we would get 800 to 1,000 inactive

 

         11   licensees.  So that's where we are at this point.

 

         12              DR. TITUS:  I just want to thank all the

 

         13   personnel for the new cards.  They are a lot more

 

         14   efficient.  They're real professional.

 

         15              DR. MONTOYA:  I feel like a real doctor now

 

         16   instead of just one on TV.

 

         17              MR. LESSLY:  The last thing under executive

 

         18   staff reports is approval of the 2002 annual report.  As

 

         19   you know, that is Maureen Lyon's responsibility.  The

 

         20   annual report has been completed, it's in the book for

 

         21   approval, and if you have any questions about that one,

 

         22   ask her about it.

 

         23              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  I'm sorry.  I was

 

         24   distracted.

 

 

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          1              MR. LESSLY:  We need to approve the annual

 

          2   report, and I just indicated that this is Ms. Lyons'

 

          3   responsibility.  If you have questions about the annual

 

          4   report content, she can certainly answer them.  Let me

 

          5   just simply say we don't do a, and never have done, a

 

          6   glossy, extensive report.  We do a straightforward

 

          7   statistical report, and that's what we have done this

 

          8   time. 

 

          9              DR. BAEPLER:  I think it's a good report that

 

         10   really contains the essence of what we did, and I move

 

         11   that we accept it.

 

         12              DR. TITUS:  Second.

 

         13              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  There's a motion and a

 

         14   second to approve the annual 2002 report.  All in favor?

 

         15              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

         16              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed?  The chair votes in

 

         17   favor and the motion carries.

 

         18              MR. LESSLY:  Madam President, you are down to

 

         19   what you can do between now and 4:30 is Agenda Item

 

         20   Number 17 on ratification, and the election of officers

 

         21   and appointment of committee members.

 

         22              MR. LEGARZA:  Also, we can do the second half

 

         23   of Number 10, can't we?

 

         24              MR. LESSLY:  I don't think so.  It says 4:30; 

 

 

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          1   soon thereafter, it may be heard.

 

          2              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  But it's still under an

 

          3   option.  Still listed as an option.

 

          4              MR. LESSLY:  There might be someone who has

 

          5   interpreted that as something they want to come speak on. 

 

          6   On that issue, I'd rather wait until 4:30 and do it all

 

          7   that way.

 

          8              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  We've been so efficient that

 

          9   I think we are going to move right along to Number 17,

 

         10   and that is ratification of the licenses issued and

 

         11   reinstatement of licensure.  You have that in your agenda

 

         12   book.  And I do need a motion to approve that, unless

 

         13   people have questions or comments.

 

         14              DR. LUBRITZ:  So move.

 

         15              DR. MONTOYA:  Second it.

 

         16              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  There's a motion and a

 

         17   second to approve the ratification of licenses.  All in

 

         18   favor? 

 

         19              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

         20              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed?  The chair votes in

 

         21   favor and the motion carries.

 

         22              MS. LYONS:  I believe Dr. Lubritz wanted to

 

         23   revisit Agenda Item Number 2.

 

         24              DR. LUBRITZ:  Yes.  Before closing our March

 

 

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          1   meeting, I had asked Dr. Smith, Lee Smith, who was

 

          2   visiting from the federation, to just give us his

 

          3   thoughts on how the Nevada State Board of Medical

 

          4   Examiners was doing nationally in various areas of

 

          5   licensing and whatever the Board as in its function does,

 

          6   and I did not see that in the minutes, and with your

 

          7   permission, perhaps we could get that added.

 

          8              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  I don't see a problem with

 

          9   that.  That would just take reopening Number 2 and

 

         10   getting out an amendment to the minutes from the March

 

         11   meeting. 

 

         12              MS. LYONS:  Dr. Smith's response? 

 

         13              DR. LUBRITZ:  Correct.

 

         14              MS. LYONS:  Which was?

 

         15              DR. LUBRITZ:  Well, he rated, and I don't

 

         16   remember per se, but he rated us in licensing, in

 

         17   sanctions, in all the functions that the Board does.  And

 

         18   I do remember that overall he felt that we were probably

 

         19   within, conservatively, the top 25 percent of the boards

 

         20   in the United States as to how we functioned as a board.

 

         21              He did mention some specific areas, and I

 

         22   honestly don't remember those, but perhaps they could be

 

         23   gleened from anyone's notes.

 

         24              MR. LESSLY:  We have notes.  Perhaps we'll

 

 

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          1   just bring those minutes back to you for the next agenda

 

          2   approval as amended.

 

          3              DR. LUBRITZ:  Thank you.

 

          4              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  All in favor of amending

 

          5   those? 

 

          6              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye. 

 

          7              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed? 

 

          8              The chair votes in favor and the motion

 

          9   carries. 

 

         10              I think the last thing that we can do today,

 

         11   and I've actually been requested to do today, is to have

 

         12   the election of officers for next year, because we have a

 

         13   few Board members that won't be on the adjudications for

 

         14   tomorrow, so they could leave early if we take care of

 

         15   that today. 

 

         16              So at this time I would open it for

 

         17   nominations for the new officers, and I guess we would

 

         18   start with president.  Are there nominations for

 

         19   president?

 

         20              DR. STEWART:  Yes, ma'am.  I would renominate

 

         21   Cheryl Hug-English for another term as president of the

 

         22   Board.

 

         23              DR. LUBRITZ:  Second.

 

         24              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Are there other nominations?   

 

 

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          1   All in favor?

 

          2              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

          3              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed? 

 

          4              I must say to the Board thank you for the vote

 

          5   of confidence, and I certainly have enjoyed serving this

 

          6   Board.  As I've stated publicly at the legislature on

 

          7   more than one occasion, I really consider this an honor

 

          8   and a privilege to serve and to serve with each of you,

 

          9   because I think that it's rare to find a group that is

 

         10   this committed to this kind of process and dedicated to

 

         11   the time commitment that this Board involves.  So thank

 

         12   you. 

 

         13              At this time I'll open up for nominations for

 

         14   vice president.

 

         15              DR. BAEPLER:  I'd like to nominate Jackie

 

         16   Jones for vice president.

 

         17              DR. LUBRITZ:  Second.

 

         18              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  There is a motion and a

 

         19   second.  Any other nominations?  If not, all in favor?

 

         20              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye. 

 

         21              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed?  The chair votes in

 

         22   favor of the nomination, and congratulations, Jackie.  

 

         23   Or condolences.

 

         24              And now I'll open it for nominations for

 

 

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          1   secretary/treasurer.

 

          2              DR. MONTOYA:  I'd like to nominate Don Baepler

 

          3   for secretary/treasurer.

 

          4              DR. JONES:  Second.

 

          5              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Motion and second to

 

          6   nominate Dr. Baepler for secretary/treasurer.  Any other

 

          7   nominations?  If not, all in favor? 

 

          8              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye. 

 

          9              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed?  The chair votes in

 

         10   favor and the motion carries.  Congratulations, Don. 

 

         11              DR. BAEPLER:  Thank you.    

 

         12              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  At this time I guess we also

 

         13   need to, in light of what we did earlier today, consider

 

         14   the appointment of our new IC committee.  And I would

 

         15   like to recommend at this point that Dr. Lubritz serve as

 

         16   chair of that second committee, if you are so willing.

 

         17              DR. LUBRITZ:  I would be so willing if you

 

         18   will allow me to try.

 

         19              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  I think that's fair. 

 

         20              I'd like to recommend that on Dr. Baepler's IC

 

         21   committee that Dr. Titus and Dr. Montoya serve with Don. 

 

         22   Are you both willing to do that? 

 

         23              DR. TITUS:  Sure. 

 

         24              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Steve?

 

 

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          1              DR. MONTOYA:  Sure.           

 

          2              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  And Dr. Anjum and

 

          3   Marlene serve with Joel on the second IC committee.  Are

 

          4   you both willing to do that? 

 

          5              DR. ANJUM:  Yes.

 

          6              MS. KIRCH:  Yes.

 

          7              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Great.  I'd also like to

 

          8   appoint Jackie Jones as chair, as is in the job

 

          9   description for vice president of the Internal Affairs

 

         10   Committee, and to suggest that we really at this point

 

         11   don't need to have committee members unless there are

 

         12   some issues that come up that require us to appoint

 

         13   further committee members.  I think that that has worked

 

         14   in the past. 

 

         15              I guess -- can I get a motion and a second to

 

         16   approve those committee appointments, or can I just

 

         17   appoint them? 

 

         18              MR. LESSLY:  You can just appoint them.

 

         19              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  Then you are all

 

         20   appointed.

 

         21              MS. KIRCH:  Cheryl, I'm just looking at the

 

         22   annual report.  I thought Dr. Anjum, Dr. Montoya, and I

 

         23   all came on the Board at about the same time, and you've

 

         24   got Dr. Anjum in 2002 and Dr. Montoya in September of

 

 

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          1   2002.  We were all on it in 2001.

 

          2              MR. LESSLY:  Were you?

 

          3              MS. KIRCH:  Uh-huh.  I think we all came on at

 

          4   the same time.

 

          5              DR. MONTOYA:  Yeah, we did.  You are

 

          6   absolutely correct.

 

          7              MR. LESSLY:  So basically it's the difference

 

          8   of a year.

 

          9              MS. KIRCH:  We were all at the same Board

 

         10   training association.

 

         11              DR. MONTOYA:  In 2001.

 

         12              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  We'll get that corrected. 

 

         13   Thank you for noticing that.

 

         14              MS. JONES:  Cheryl, if I might, on my behalf

 

         15   and perhaps on behalf of some of the other Board members,

 

         16   I would like to thank you for all that you went through

 

         17   this last year.  I sat next to you at one of the

 

         18   legislative sessions, and you were most professional in a

 

         19   situation that was very difficult at best, and I just

 

         20   really appreciate all the time that you put in and

 

         21   appreciate you being in attendance at all the meetings

 

         22   also.

 

         23              DR. STEWART:  We all appreciate that.

 

         24              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Thank you very much.  I

 

 

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          1   really do appreciate it.  It has been a interesting

 

          2   process, to say the least.  But I think that what has

 

          3   become really clear through this process and through this

 

          4   legislative session since we have gone and talked and

 

          5   actually explained the process of this Board, I think

 

          6   that there is a far greater understanding from the

 

          7   legislative body of what we're about, what we do, and the

 

          8   commitment that goes into being a part of this Board. 

 

          9   And I think from that standpoint alone I think it has

 

         10   served a very positive purpose for this Board, although

 

         11   there have been some interesting moments. 

 

         12              But I do think that it has been an educational

 

         13   process for those from the other end of the legislature

 

         14   to learn a little bit more about us as well.  But thank

 

         15   you very much for those comments.  I appreciate that as

 

         16   well. 

 

         17              Before we recess for the day, I think Dick has

 

         18   something.  Dick.

 

         19              MR. LEGARZA:  Recess until 4:30.

 

         20              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  I'm sorry.

 

         21              MR. LEGARZA:  On your 4:30 hearing, I'm going

 

         22   to leave and go back to the office, and I'm going to give

 

         23   this proposed consideration of the additional regulations 

 

         24   to Larry, so that if anyone shows up there at the office

 

 

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          1   to be heard on these regulations, because that's where

 

          2   they were noticed.  We have had some telephone calls

 

          3   telling people to come here; Angie is over at the office

 

          4   telling people to come here if they want to be heard.

 

          5              But I want to state for the record I have sent

 

          6   each one of you a complete set of both workshops, the

 

          7   workshop conducted in Reno and the workshop conducted in

 

          8   Las Vegas, and I have sent you also two binders of the

 

          9   comments we have received from individuals, from

 

         10   physicians and from organizations, if you will, the

 

         11   national pathology board and people like that, broken

 

         12   them down like that. 

 

         13              And in addition to that, I would like to hand

 

         14   out to you now additional physician comments that I have

 

         15   received and additional citizen comments that the citizen

 

         16   comments fit into that same category under that one

 

         17   doctor that solicited knowledge of his patients, and you

 

         18   now have in your possession everything that has come in

 

         19   on these regulations, from all written input as well as

 

         20   everything that was taken at the workshops through this

 

         21   morning.  Angie and I compiled these packets this

 

         22   morning, so I would like to give each of you each one of

 

         23   these so you have an entire package, and I'll be calling

 

         24   you at about 4:25 to get on this speaker phone, and Helen

 

 

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          1   will take care of answering that so that if there's any

 

          2   communication between the two locations, people that are

 

          3   there will be able to participate, if there's going to be

 

          4   any participation.

 

          5              I'll just hand these out to you now.

 

          6              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Thank you, Dick.  I think

 

          7   you thought we didn't have enough to read; is that right?

 

          8              MR. LEGARZA:  You only got about 27 booklets

 

          9   this time I think.

 

         10              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  We'll take a recess

 

         11   then until 4:30.

 

         12              (Recess)

 

         13              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  We're going to reconvene. 

 

         14   We have one agenda item left, Number 10.  That's

 

         15   consideration of amendments to NAC Chapter 630.  We'll go

 

         16   to the second part of that first, and Larry Lessly is

 

         17   going to address that.

 

         18              MR. LESSLY:  This is actually Mr. Legarza's

 

         19   item, but he's back over at the office.  The agenda item

 

         20   is for us to discuss potential amendments to NAC Chapter

 

         21   630.  The two amendments we have proposed for you are

 

         22   elimination of NAC 630.080, Paragraph 4.  Paragraph 4 is

 

         23   the requirement that you complete one year post-graduate

 

         24   training before taking Step 3 of the USMLE. 

 

 

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          1              For your background knowledge, that was a

 

          2   policy statement in the Board manual that was rolled over

 

          3   to a regulation.  That had to do with the Board's policy

 

          4   on whether we would allow candidates from Nevada to take

 

          5   the examination without one year of post-graduate

 

          6   training.  Really never intended to have any bearing on

 

          7   whether you could get a license in the State of Nevada

 

          8   unless you did it that way. 

 

          9              So we would suggest eliminating that

 

         10   paragraph.  That's Sub-Paragraph A of Paragraph 4.  And

 

         11   eliminate Paragraph B, which is the regulation that you

 

         12   must pass Steps 1, 2 and 3 of USMLE within seven years,

 

         13   and then eliminate the paragraph requiring 10 years for

 

         14   an MD/PhD combination, and that constitutes our

 

         15   recommendation. 

 

         16              Now, let me speak to the seven-year rule on

 

         17   the examination.  I know why the federation recommends

 

         18   that.  At one time we had no requirement and went to the

 

         19   seven-year requirement.  Part of the difficulty is the

 

         20   contract that all boards sign with the federation with

 

         21   respect to conducting the USMLE for the states.  There

 

         22   are still a couple of states I believe that give the exam

 

         23   themselves.  Almost everyone is contracted with the

 

         24   federation. 

 

 

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          1              You pick up some liability when you do that on

 

          2   accommodations.  We had to sign what I would call an

 

          3   adhesion contract with respect to that, saying that we

 

          4   make the call on whether accommodations are granted to 

 

          5   candidates from Nevada.  We then went to the seven-year

 

          6   rule and it cut down a lot of controversy about that. 

 

          7              From the standpoint of does it really make any

 

          8   difference, the examination is what is required to get a

 

          9   license.  Does it really make any difference in what time

 

         10   framework you took it in?  I would say our recommendation

 

         11   is to eliminate those three.  So it would be eliminating

 

         12   NAC 630.080, Paragraph 4 and Paragraph 5. 

 

         13              And all you need to act on here, Dick had

 

         14   prepared a notice for hearing on this after you conduct

 

         15   workshops on Tuesday, June 17th in Reno, and on

 

         16   Wednesday, June 18th, in Las Vegas, and then after it the

 

         17   Board holds a telephone conference call at 4:30 p.m. on

 

         18   July the 8th, that's a Tuesday, to take final action

 

         19   after the workshop. 

 

         20              So the motion I need, if you want to do this,

 

         21   is to send this matter out for hearing at workshop.

 

         22              MS. KIRCH:  I so move.

 

         23              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  There is a motion; is there

 

         24   a second?

 

 

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          1              DR. STEWART:  Yes.  May I ask one quick

 

          2   question?

 

          3              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Yes.

 

          4              DR. STEWART:  This is for initial licensure

 

          5   and not for continuing licensure or continuing

 

          6   competency?

 

          7              MR. LESSLY:  This has nothing to do with the

 

          8   other agenda.

 

          9              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  There is a motion and

 

         10   a second to send this out to hearing, which will be

 

         11   conducted in June.  Is there any further discussion?  If

 

         12   not, all in favor?

 

         13              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

         14              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed?  The chair votes in

 

         15   favor of the motion and the motion carries.  We will send

 

         16   this out for hearing in June, and we will talk by phone

 

         17   in July.

 

         18              MR. LESSLY:  And just for the Board's

 

         19   information, we will accept applications, even though

 

         20   you haven't taken final action until the conference call.

 

         21   We will go ahead and process any applications, but we

 

         22   won't take final action on it until you pass the

 

         23   regulation.

 

         24              MS. JONES:  Did you say July 8th is the

 

 

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          1   conference call?

 

          2              MR. LESSLY:  He had proposed Tuesday, July

 

          3   8th, 2003, 4:30.

 

          4              DR. LUBRITZ:  Will you send us out another

 

          5   notice?

 

          6              MR. LESSLY:  Yes, sir.

 

          7              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  Then we have the

 

          8   first part of this agenda item, which is adoption of a

 

          9   new regulation.  Dr. Baepler is going to start us off on

 

         10   this.

 

         11              DR. BAEPLER:  Let me, first of all, state that

 

         12   I am going to make a motion to table this particular

 

         13   measure, but I would like, on behalf of the committee and

 

         14   hopefully the Board, to explain why we wish to table it

 

         15   at this time. 

 

         16              We got a tremendous amount of input from the

 

         17   two hearings that we held, and from many, many letters,

 

         18   and several things are evident when you analyze that

 

         19   input, and it's all been transcribed now.  We're really

 

         20   getting into it in terms of being able to sit down and

 

         21   read it more leisurely-like. 

 

         22              First of all, it's clear that there are a lot

 

         23   of good ideas out there.  It's also clear that there are

 

         24   special groups out there that we need to accommodate due

 

 

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          1   to the special nature of their needs.  And it's also

 

          2   clear that there's quite a bit of misunderstanding. 

 

          3              It's remarkable how many people address the

 

          4   issue as having to take a test every two years.  It's

 

          5   clear that this is something that happens every ten

 

          6   years, not every two years.  It's also clear that the

 

          7   vast majority of physicians in the State of Nevada

 

          8   already meet the requirements without doing anything

 

          9   additional whatever, and it's also clear, if you read the

 

         10   regs, nobody has to take a test.  There are alternatives

 

         11   to the test that I think many people would prefer.  But

 

         12   even the alternatives to Items 1, 2 and 3, which

 

         13   accommodates most of the physicians in this state, are

 

         14   designed to inconvenience the physician.  So somewhere we

 

         15   need to clarify this for people. 

 

         16              We started this three years ago, and we chose

 

         17   the word "competency," and I wish we could find another

 

         18   word because we are not really looking at competency in

 

         19   the classic sense of what competency consists of.  And

 

         20   the unfortunate part of using competency is it's always

 

         21   coupled with "testing."  Someone says you can't say

 

         22   "competency" without saying "competency testing."  You

 

         23   know, when you talk about features or anything like that

 

         24   it's testing, because that measures knowledge, but not

 

 

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          1   competency.  So it's kind of an oxymoron to use the two

 

          2   together.

 

          3              We're interested in whether the physician is

 

          4   current and knowledgeable about their discipline, and we

 

          5   are trying to see if there is any external evaluation

 

          6   that happens to be physicians.  I'm sure the special

 

          7   groups that we want to accommodate, and there may be

 

          8   others, would be, for example, the pathologists and the

 

          9   radiologists.  They have different kinds of practices. 

 

         10   Again, those are the Board certified and recertified or

 

         11   zone-free certified but have hospital privileges, they're

 

         12   home free. 

 

         13              But in hearing the pathologists and the

 

         14   radiologists talk, they go through some remarkable

 

         15   external reviews, quality assurance, checks and balances. 

 

         16   They meet fully the intent of what this Board has in

 

         17   mind, and I want to meet with groups and any of my

 

         18   colleagues here as well, I want to meet with Desert

 

         19   Radiologists and Steinberg and find some comparable

 

         20   groups up North, and let them help craft the language

 

         21   that would satisfy them and us. 

 

         22              I'm also convinced in reading the letters and

 

         23   hearing the testimony that there are certain doctors out

 

         24   there that find themselves in truly a unique and unusual

 

 

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          1   experience, and we would propose that we set up in the

 

          2   regs the right for a doctor to petition every ten years,

 

          3   if it's appropriate, for an exception to this particular

 

          4   regulation.  I don't expect that there will be very many,

 

          5   but there could well be some. 

 

          6              You have to remember too that states all over

 

          7   the country are looking at this.  As earlier in the

 

          8   meeting Dr. Titus pointed out, at the federation national

 

          9   meeting in Chicago, it's a topic of conversation from

 

         10   state after state after state.  They're all where we were

 

         11   three years ago. 

 

         12              We spent the first year trying to find the

 

         13   right test.  And the states are still mostly in that

 

         14   phase.  They all want to test all of the doctors.  I

 

         15   would hope they would evolve to the point where we are

 

         16   three years later, to make it more accommodating than the

 

         17   simplistic approach of simply testing. 

 

         18              I think that we may be one of the few states,

 

         19   perhaps the only state, where quite possibly there won't

 

         20   be any test at all.  You know, that is conceivable.  Or

 

         21   it may be that three or four percent of the medical

 

         22   community will find it more convenient to take a test

 

         23   rather than to sit down with two or three colleagues in a

 

         24   peer review type of process that is another type of

 

 

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          1   option.               

 

          2              We've come a long ways.  There is no need for

 

          3   haste.  And I really think we need to continue to find

 

          4   input, find something that is non-threatening, yet

 

          5   accomplishes the goal of yes, the doctors in the State of

 

          6   Nevada do go through some kind of a review process during

 

          7   each ten-year cycle.  And maybe find a better word than

 

          8   "competency." 

 

          9              So with that as background, I would like to

 

         10   move that this matter be tabled.

 

         11              DR. STEWART:  Second.

 

         12              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  There is a motion and

 

         13   a second to table this matter.  Any further discussion

 

         14   from Board members?  Joel.

 

         15              DR. LUBRITZ:  But that being understood, with

 

         16   continuing work being done as we may determine

 

         17   appropriate, and then it will be presented at some point

 

         18   in time.

 

         19              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Correct.

 

         20              DR. BAEPLER:  It's going to be understood that

 

         21   the committee will keep working.  We will invite the rest

 

         22   of the Board to participate in this type of

 

         23   deliberations.  I am going to spend a lot of time and

 

         24   invite anybody on the Board to talk to doctors.  But I

 

 

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          1   want to make appointments with these groups, go out and

 

          2   visit with them and get their input, because there are a

 

          3   lot of good ideas out there.  And I would like

 

          4   Dr. Stewart to remain on the committee.  I don't want to

 

          5   sacrifice all of the background of this committee by a

 

          6   member going off of it.  We need that experience. 

 

          7              Robin, I invite you to really get involved

 

          8   since you are on that national committee now looking at

 

          9   that, and we can sure pick your brain on that.  But I

 

         10   don't even want to set a target, but sometime during this

 

         11   next fiscal year, perhaps December, perhaps in the

 

         12   spring, we need to bring forth a revised set of

 

         13   regulations.

 

         14              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Okay.  Any further comments

 

         15   by Board members?  All in favor of tabling it? 

 

         16              THE BOARD MEMBERS:  Aye.

 

         17              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Opposed?  The chair votes in

 

         18   favor of the motion, the motion carries. 

 

         19              Now, this agenda item has been tabled;

 

         20   however, I notice we have several members of the audience

 

         21   both here in Reno and in Vegas.  And you are certainly

 

         22   welcome to make comments about this, with the

 

         23   understanding that particularly the building in Vegas I

 

         24   believe is going to close at 5:00 o'clock.  I know

 

 

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          1   they're wanting us out soon after that up here as well. 

 

          2              We have received two books of the hearings

 

          3   that were both held in Reno and Las Vegas that each Board

 

          4   member has received and read, of comments from physicians

 

          5   as well as letters that have -- individual letters that

 

          6   have been submitted to the Board.  But if you feel that

 

          7   you have an additional comment you would like to make at

 

          8   this time, please come forward, identify yourself, and we

 

          9   will be happy to listen to you. 

 

         10              Maybe we'll go to Las Vegas first.  Is there

 

         11   anyone that wants to make a comment?

 

         12              DR. HAVENS:  This is Don Havens.  I just have

 

         13   a question of Dr. Baepler.  Will these subcommittee

 

         14   meetings be agendized so that you can have a physician

 

         15   input from other than just the radiologists and

 

         16   pathologists?

 

         17              DR. BAEPLER:  Oh, I didn't mean to infer that

 

         18   we would restrict it.  We want broad-based participation.

 

         19              DR. HAVENS:  If we would somehow know when

 

         20   those meetings are, we could let people know, and then

 

         21   they could meet on a perhaps semi-formal basis, but with

 

         22   members of the committee to have discussions or provide

 

         23   input?

 

         24              DR. BAEPLER:  We can consider a mechanism for

 

 

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          1   more involvement.  I don't want to get it to the point

 

          2   that it's so cumbersome that we make no progress. 

 

          3   Obviously, we welcome input.  It may well be that we will

 

          4   have to hold hearings again, too, both North and South. 

 

          5   It could come to that. 

 

          6              Let us consider that and let me even discuss

 

          7   that with you.  Yeah.  We definitely want input, but I

 

          8   also want the committee and the Board to be able to

 

          9   function efficiently, which is sometimes hard to do if

 

         10   you have like 30 people in the room, all giving you

 

         11   suggestions and so on and you're trying to make progress

 

         12   on the committee.  But let's consider that.

 

         13              DR. HAVENS:  Okay.  Thank you.

 

         14              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Any other comments from Las

 

         15   Vegas? 

 

         16              DR. HAVENS:  We have another one.

 

         17              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Go ahead, please. 

 

         18              DR. ARNOLD:  Dr. Arnold, a dermatologist in

 

         19   Las Vegas.  Can you give me an idea what you're talking

 

         20   about with peer review, what it would involve, kind of a

 

         21   ballpark?

 

         22              DR. BAEPLER:  Yes, I can give you a ballpark. 

 

         23   It's not definitive, but we felt that to take three

 

         24   doctors in a similar discipline and field of expertise,

 

 

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          1   sometimes it's not able to match them exactly.  We would

 

          2   try to find like three doctors in the North to sit down

 

          3   with the doctors in the South and vice versa. 

 

          4              I think the person that asks for the peer

 

          5   review should have the right to refuse the participation

 

          6   of one or more of the peer reviewers if there is a

 

          7   history of some difficulty between the two or some

 

          8   conflict of interest.  Obviously, we are not going to

 

          9   pick two competing groups to peer review each other.  To

 

         10   look at a person's charts and to simply sit down and have

 

         11   a discussion with the people about the particular

 

         12   practice of medicine the person is engaged in, to get a

 

         13   concept as to whether they are current in the discipline 

 

         14   and how they're handling the patients, perhaps to look at

 

         15   a few recent charts to see how the records are kept.  I

 

         16   really see it as that type of an informal process. 

 

         17              I'm a scientist, and if I sit down in a

 

         18   conversation with a person for about an hour in my

 

         19   generic discipline, I can pretty well tell whether that

 

         20   person is current and the type of work he is doing or she

 

         21   is doing.  I'm not thinking of the kind of more rigorous

 

         22   peer review that many of the specialties are beginning to

 

         23   now put in for recertification.  But nevertheless, you

 

         24   can tell a lot in a brief meeting of people in similar

 

 

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          1   fields.

 

          2              DR. ARNOLD:  You are not talking about Board

 

          3   type questions being asked in this type of review?  For

 

          4   example, in the letter I wrote you -- I specialize in

 

          5   skin surgery, and each time I do a case, I become better. 

 

          6   I'm able to remember what the chemical is in an oleander

 

          7   that causes contact dermatitis.

 

          8              DR. BAEPLER:  I remember your letter very

 

          9   well, and I think that in a peer review you could make

 

         10   that point, and your colleagues being in the same or

 

         11   similar discipline would understand that.  I would hope

 

         12   they would.

 

         13              DR. ARNOLD:  Okay.  Another physician also

 

         14   made the suggestion that people from the South be audited

 

         15   by people from the North and vice versa.

 

         16              DR. BAEPLER:  This would be our hope.  The

 

         17   only difficulty I can see with that is the -- if a great

 

         18   many people choose this, the disparity in numbers between

 

         19   the North and the South is going to put a greater burden

 

         20   on the people in the North than it would in the South. 

 

         21   But we also want to keep the cost down.  We do not

 

         22   envision this as a costly process whatever. 

 

         23              If you look at the total set of regs, we would

 

         24   hope it wouldn't cost the majority of doctors anything at

 

 

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          1   all.  You know, if you're in Category 1, Board certified,

 

          2   knee certified, you simply send us your credentials to

 

          3   document that and you're home free.  If you have hospital

 

          4   affiliations, you simply send us the papers showing the

 

          5   hospital affiliations and you're home free.  There should

 

          6   be no cost to that type of thing.

 

          7              DR. ARNOLD:  That brings up one other point,

 

          8   and that's people in specialties like mine are basically

 

          9   somewhat discriminated against.  The fact that we don't

 

         10   admit patients, that we are office-based rather than

 

         11   hospital-based, that kind of puts more of a burden on

 

         12   certain groups than others.

 

         13              DR. BAEPLER:  I would say that is becoming

 

         14   somewhat more common.  It applies to a great many people. 

 

         15   And what I would like to invite you to do, give it a

 

         16   little thought and write another letter giving us an idea

 

         17   what type of thing would work for people like you. 

 

         18   That's really what we're looking for.

 

         19              DR. ARNOLD:  Okay.  Thanks.

 

         20              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Thank you. 

 

         21              Any other comments from Las Vegas?  If not,

 

         22   I'll open it up to comments from anyone in the audience

 

         23   in Reno.  Anybody have anything? 

 

         24              All right, if not, I'd like to open it up for

 

 

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          1   public comment on any other agenda item that's been

 

          2   discussed here today.  If there are comments from anyone

 

          3   in Las Vegas or Reno, we are certainly open to hearing

 

          4   those at this time.

 

          5              DR. HAVENS:  This is Don Havens.  I want to

 

          6   thank you for having this teleconference.  This is very

 

          7   convenient, and I hope you're able to work that out in

 

          8   the future for all your meetings.               

 

          9              And Clark County Medical Society would like to

 

         10   congratulate and thank Dr. Stewart for his eight years of

 

         11   service on the Board.  Thank you.

 

         12              DR. HUG-ENGLISH:  Thank you.  That's very

 

         13   nice. 

 

         14              Hearing no other comments, we will recess

 

         15   until tomorrow at 8:30.  And tomorrow's meeting will be

 

         16   called at the Board office, not in this room.  So we will

 

         17   be there and not here tomorrow.  8:30 tomorrow.

 

         18              We're in recess. 

 

         19              (Recess at 5:05 p.m.)

 

         20  

 

         21  

 

         22  

 

         23  

 

         24  

 

 

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          1   STATE OF NEVADA   )

                                )  ss.

          2   COUNTY OF WASHOE  )

              

          3   

             

          4                I, MILDRED J. TERRY, Certified Court

 

          5   Reporter in and for the State of Nevada, do hereby

 

          6   certify:

 

          7                That the foregoing proceedings were taken by

 

          8   me at 9670 Gateway Drive, Suite 100, Reno, Nevada;

 

          9                That the proceedings were recorded

 

         10   stenographically by me and thereafter transcribed via

 

         11   computer, under my supervision;

 

         12                That the foregoing is a full, true, and

 

         13   correct transcript of the proceedings to the best of my

 

         14   knowledge, skill and ability.

 

         15                I further certify that I am not a relative

 

         16   nor an employee of any attorney or any of the parties,

 

         17   nor am I financially interested in these matters.

 

         18                I declare under penalty of perjury under the

 

         19   laws of the State of Nevada that the foregoing statements

 

         20   are true and correct.

 

         21                Dated this 19th day of June, 2003.

 

         22           

             

         23                        ____________________________________                                                     

                                   MILDRED TERRY HOENSHELL, CCR No. 303

         24  

 

 

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