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          1   CODE:  4185

              LISA A. YOUNG, CCR #353

          2   Peggy Hoogs & Associates

              345 Marsh Avenue

          3   Reno, Nevada

              COURT REPORTER

          4

 

          5

 

          6           NEVADA STATE BOARD OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS

 

          7                        BOARD MEETING

 

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         11                  TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

                        Friday, December 5, 2003; 9:00 a.m.

         12            Saturday, December 6, 2003; 8:30 a.m.

                           1105 Terminal Way, Suite 301,

         13                      Reno, Nevada 89502

 

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         25   REPORTED BY:                  LISA A. YOUNG, CCR #353

 

 

 

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          3   MEMBERS OF THE NEVADA STATE BOARD OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS:

 

          4                CHERYL A. HUG-ENGLISH, M.D.,

                                     PRESIDENT

          5

                             JACULINE C. JONES, ED.D.,

          6                PUBLIC MEMBER, VICE PRESIDENT

 

          7                  DONALD H. BAEPLER, PH.D.,

                              PUBLIC MEMBER, SECRETARY

          8

                                ROBIN L. TITUS, M.D.

          9

                               SOHAIL U. ANJUM, M.D.

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                                 JAVAID ANWAR, M.D.

         11

                              STEPHEN K. MONTOYA, M.D.

         12

                          MARLENE J. KIRCH, PUBLIC MEMBER

         13

                               JOEL N. LUBRITZ, M.D.

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               STAFF OF THE NEVADA STATE BOARD OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS:

         16

                             RICHARD J. LEGARZA, J.D.,

         17                       GENERAL COUNSEL

 

         18                    LARRY D. LESSLY, J.D.,

                        EXECUTIVE SECRETARY/SPECIAL COUNSEL

         19

                           DRENNAN (TONY) A. CLARK, J.D.

         20                       DEPUTY EXECUTIVE

 

         21                       MAUREEN E. LYONS

                  DEPUTY EXECUTIVE SECRETARY/INFORMATION SYSTEMS

         22                        ADMINISTRATOR

 

         23                       LAURIE L. MUNSON

                             DEPUTY EXECUTIVE SECRETARY

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          1                  ALSO PRESENT IN LAS VEGAS:

 

          2                       MICHAEL L. HUSE,

                                    INVESTIGATOR

          3

                               ROBERT J. BARNET, M.D.

          4                           REVIEWER

 

          5                       MAX BRAVA, M.D.

 

          6                          DON HAVENS

                            CLARK COUNTY MEDICAL SOCIETY

          7

                                    MIKE GARCIA

          8                RESPIRATORY ADVISORY COMMITTEE

 

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          1      RENO, NEVADA; FRIDAY, DECEMBER 5, 2003; 9:00 A.M.

 

          2                            -o0o-

 

          3             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I'd like to call this

 

          4   December 5th meeting of the Nevada State Board of

 

          5   Medical Examiners meeting to order.

 

          6             This is our first meeting that we have had

 

          7   with our video conference equipment up and running, and

 

          8   I would just like to publically acknowledge all the work

 

          9   and the efforts that our staff have undertaken to get

 

         10   this up and running by our December meeting.

 

         11             It took a tremendous amount of effort.  And,

 

         12   Tony, I think under your leadership and your discretion

 

         13   this all happened.  And a lot of effort from Maureen and

 

         14   others who I know were here late last night making sure

 

         15   this is up and ready to go.  And I appreciate the

 

         16   effort, and I think hopefully we are set to go.

 

         17             Before we get started with our agenda, I would

 

         18   like to take just a moment.  We have some new employees,

 

         19   and I would like to introduce those.

 

         20             Larry, would you like to start with those?

 

         21             MR. LESSLY:  I have a new employee.

 

         22   Mr. Legarza has a new employee, and Tony Clark has a new

 

         23   employee.

 

         24             I would like to introduce to you Debbie Swartz

 

         25   who is sitting here in the front row who is our new

 

 

 

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          1   financial support assistant.  She comes to us with a

 

          2   number of years of experience doing the same thing in

 

          3   the private sector and has taken that position about a

 

          4   month or so ago and stepped right into it.  And we

 

          5   welcome her here.

 

          6             And I believe Mr. Legarza has an employee to

 

          7   introduce.

 

          8             MR. LEGARZA:  Jennifer Sloan.  Jennifer is a

 

          9   new investigator in the investigator department.

 

         10             Would you introduce yourself and tell us a

 

         11   little about your educational background and experience.

 

         12             MS. SLOAN:  My name is Jennifer Sloan.  I have

 

         13   been here for a couple weeks now.  I graduated from UNR

 

         14   in psychology.  And I come from a company called

 

         15   Educare.  I was with them for almost six years.  I did

 

         16   some program management, internal auditing, and

 

         17   investigation.

 

         18             MR. LEGARZA:  Thank you.

 

         19             MR. CLARK:  I would like to introduce Laurie

 

         20   Munson who is the new assistant deputy executive

 

         21   secretary.  Laurie comes to us from the Attorney

 

         22   General's Office where she had a lot of experience.  And

 

         23   she will be replacing Maureen when Maureen leaves on

 

         24   January 23rd.

 

         25             Maureen is the employee with the board who has

 

 

 

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          1   the most tenure at this point.  She started in July of

 

          2   1990.  And when she leaves on her last day,

 

          3   January 23rd, she will have had thirteen and a half

 

          4   years of straight employment with the board.

 

          5             And Laurie will be taking over all of

 

          6   Maureen's duties and those duties that Kasey Miller

 

          7   previously had as administrative support for Stephen

 

          8   Quinn and me.

 

          9             And, also, one more thing about Laurie, Laurie

 

         10   is the guru of our video teleconferencing.  And I would

 

         11   ask her to just take a minute and explain to you how the

 

         12   microphones operate, how the system operates, and if you

 

         13   have any questions, please don't look at me.  Look, at

 

         14   Laurie.

 

         15             MS. MUNSON:  You can see how well it has gone

 

         16   so far under my direction.

 

         17             Basically, the microphones are used basically

 

         18   the same as the Contractors' Board, as I understand.

 

         19   Push the button to turn it on.  Push it to turn it off.

 

         20   If the mic has green, it means the mic is live.

 

         21             There are only seven.  They are highly

 

         22   sensitive so you don't need to be directly in front of

 

         23   them to be heard by Las Vegas.

 

         24             Dan, at Voice Integration assures us these are

 

         25   sufficient for our needs.  However, if we deem we need

 

 

 

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          1   more, we can purchase them and set them on the system.

 

          2   We tested them a couple weeks ago and it seemed to be

 

          3   sufficient.  But we will know for sure after today, I

 

          4   suppose.

 

          5             Other than that, as you can see, the camera on

 

          6   the left as well as the camera at the end of the room

 

          7   are showing the Las Vegas feed.

 

          8             They have one camera so we can only see it

 

          9   from one direction.  They can adjust it minorly, but it

 

         10   will be the only one direction.

 

         11             We have two cameras so we can show it from

 

         12   both sides of the room and make adjustments with that.

 

         13             We can control both the cameras here and from

 

         14   Las Vegas.  So if they are not seeing what they need to

 

         15   see up here, we will always have an investigator or

 

         16   other staff member down there to help operate the

 

         17   equipment.  Today it is Mike Huse.  So he can take care

 

         18   of it from that end.

 

         19             When we go to closed session, what we plan to

 

         20   do is mute all the microphones in this room which we can

 

         21   do with just a touch of a button, hopefully, and make

 

         22   the screens go to blue as they were when you came in.

 

         23   And they will neither see nor hear what is going on in

 

         24   this room down in Las Vegas.

 

         25             Mike will also mute the microphones down there

 

 

 

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          1   so we won't hear any noise from their end of it.

 

          2             When you come back to open session we unmute

 

          3   the microphone, camera is back on, and that takes care

 

          4   of that.

 

          5             Two other things, we have the capability now

 

          6   of showing a video that includes Las Vegas because there

 

          7   is a camera attached to the VCR.  And we can also put a

 

          8   document on the camera screen with a document camera if

 

          9   you want to show that.

 

         10             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Great.  Thank you, Laurie,

 

         11   and, again, thanks for all the effort in getting this

 

         12   together.

 

         13             I would just like to take a moment and have

 

         14   those of you in Las Vegas introduce yourselves so that

 

         15   we know who is down there.

 

         16             MS. LAURIE:  He has his microphones muted.

 

         17             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Yes.

 

         18             MR. GARCIA:  Mike Garcia with the respiratory

 

         19   advisory committee.

 

         20             DR. BRAVA:  This is Dr. Max Brava.

 

         21             MR. HAVENS:  Don Havens from the Clark County

 

         22   Medical Society.

 

         23             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Hi, Don.

 

         24             MR. HAVENS:  We are having trouble hearing

 

         25   you.  Mike is undoubtedly relating that up to you.

 

 

 

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          1             MADAM PRESIDENT:  You are having trouble

 

          2   hearing us?

 

          3             MR. HAVEN:  Yes, it is garbled with electronic

 

          4   screeches in it.  Sounds like you are under water.

 

          5             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I don't think I am.

 

          6             MR. GARCIA:  It's getting better.  It's

 

          7   getting sharper.

 

          8             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Is the sound getting any

 

          9   better?

 

         10             MR. GARCIA:  Yes.  And the picture is getting

 

         11   better, also.

 

         12             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Bear with us.  Again, this

 

         13   is the first time we are having this.  Do give us

 

         14   feedback as the day goes along if we are not getting

 

         15   through.

 

         16             MR. HUSE:  Dr. English, this is Mike.  Can you

 

         17   hear me okay?

 

         18             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Yes.

 

         19             MR. HUSE:  We have some technical problems and

 

         20   Trent and I are trying to work it out.  The voices are a

 

         21   little garbled, and the picture is a little bit fuzzy so

 

         22   we will continue to work on it.  But if you can hear us

 

         23   okay, that's a step in the right direction.

 

         24             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  We want to make sure

 

         25   you are hearing us okay as well.

 

 

 

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          1             Okay.  Moving on to agenda item number two

 

          2   which is the approval of our minutes from September 4th

 

          3   and 5th as well as September 26th.  And is there any

 

          4   discussion or changes proposed to the minutes?

 

          5             MS. JONES:  I would move for approval.

 

          6             MR. LEGARZA:  Second.

 

          7             MADAM PRESIDENT:  There is a motion to accept

 

          8   the minutes from both the September 4th and 5th and the

 

          9   September 26th meetings.  Any further discussion?  All

 

         10   in favor?

 

         11             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Aye.

 

         12             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Opposed?  Chair votes in

 

         13   favor of the motion.  Motion carries, and the minutes

 

         14   are approved.

 

         15             Agenda item number three is our personnel

 

         16   section.

 

         17             MR. LESSLY:  Madam President, I would ask for

 

         18   a closed session for the first portion of that agenda

 

         19   item to discuss professional competency of board staff

 

         20   only and diversion program for later on in this agenda.

 

         21             DR. TITUS:  So noted.

 

         22             MADAM PRESIDENT:  There is a motion and second

 

         23   to go into closed session.  All in favor?

 

         24             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Aye.

 

         25             MADAM PRESIDENT:  We are in closed session.

 

 

 

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          1   We will return.

 

          2             (Off the record -- Closed session.)

 

          3             MADAM PRESIDENT:  We are in open session.

 

          4   And, Mr. Legarza, do you have --  I'm sorry.

 

          5   Mr. Lessly, do you have a recommendation to the board

 

          6   with regard to personnel and changes in staff?

 

          7             MR. LESSLY:  I do.  Let me say that my

 

          8   recommendation with respect to the licensing specialist

 

          9   and the chief licensing specialist will be based upon

 

         10   salary surveys we have done indicating that they are

 

         11   underpaid.

 

         12             My recommendations with respect to a number of

 

         13   other employees are based upon their six month --

 

         14   completion of six months employment with the board.

 

         15             And, as you know, we sometimes bring folks on

 

         16   at a lower salary than the job would warrant with the

 

         17   understanding that if they perform well at the end of

 

         18   six months, we would look at that.  A number of

 

         19   employees are at that point at this time.

 

         20             And the other recommendation I'm going to make

 

         21   to you and ask for in the form of a motion is based upon

 

         22   the increased work load that Dr. Barnet, our medical

 

         23   reviewer, is experiencing.  He is on at .40 FTE at this

 

         24   point.

 

         25             So I would like to point out that these are

 

 

 

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          1   mid-stream increases in pay.  They are not intended to

 

          2   be two raises in any one year or putting people out of

 

          3   sink insofar as when the board normally looks at

 

          4   increased compensation for staff.  That is usually done

 

          5   at the beginning of the fiscal year at the June meeting.

 

          6             However, what I would like to have in a motion

 

          7   is a motion that would accomplish the following:

 

          8   Increase the FTE on the medical reviewer from .40 to .49

 

          9   percent at the same base salary effective 1

 

         10   December, 2003.

 

         11             Increase the salary of license specialist

 

         12   Carolyn Castleman to $37,000 effective 1 December, 2003.

 

         13             Annual increase of $3,000 effective 1

 

         14   December, '03 for license specialist Misty Dew, Kasey

 

         15   Miller and Elizabeth Pawlikowski.

 

         16             A $1,590 annual increase performance bonus to

 

         17   administrative assistance Angelia Donohoe back in

 

         18   investigations effective 1 January, 2004.

 

         19             Six months evaluation increase of $2,000

 

         20   annual increase for Pam Gabica administrative assistant

 

         21   and investigations effective 1 January, 2004.

 

         22             Four thousand dollar annual increase to

 

         23   investigator Trent Hiett who has completed his six

 

         24   months probationary term effective January, '04 and

 

         25   should be raised to that entry level of an investigator.

 

 

 

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          1             Two-thousand-five-hundred-dollar longevity

 

          2   bonus payable 1 January, 2004 payable to Maureen Lyons

 

          3   who has been with us thirteen and a half years and who

 

          4   will be leaving on January 23rd.

 

          5             An increase in the salary of chief licensing

 

          6   specialist Lynnette Krotke who has been in that position

 

          7   for six months probationary period to $55,000 annually

 

          8   effective 1 December, 2003 and that is the motion I do

 

          9   request.

 

         10             MADAM PRESIDENT:  There is a motion and a

 

         11   second to approve these changes as proposed by

 

         12   Mr. Lessly.  Any further suggestion?  All in favor?

 

         13             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Aye.

 

         14             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Opposed?  Chair votes in

 

         15   favor of the motion and the motion carries.  So those

 

         16   changes have been approved.

 

         17             I would just like to make a comment that the

 

         18   increased staff that we have had to hire and the

 

         19   increased workload that the current staff have simply

 

         20   reflects the fact that this board is working very hard

 

         21   and a lot of the changes that have come legislatively,

 

         22   the changes have not having the medical legal screening

 

         23   panel anymore has really increased the workload, the

 

         24   investigations, the licensing duties of this board.  And

 

         25   I think these changes reflect the needs that we have.

 

 

 

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          1             I'd also like to personally thank and

 

          2   recognize Maureen Lyons for her years of service to this

 

          3   board since this is her last meeting with us.

 

          4             MS. LYONS:  Thank you.

 

          5             MADAM PRESIDENT:  You have been a tremendous

 

          6   help in every way.  The board couldn't do without you

 

          7   and all that you do.  Thank you.

 

          8             MR. LESSLY:  The only other things we need to

 

          9   do under open session under personnel is, as I indicated

 

         10   earlier to you, the administrative assistant for

 

         11   administration position has now been filled again by

 

         12   Helena Steples.

 

         13             It ended up being an increase on one position

 

         14   on the amended document.  We got the approval of the

 

         15   president to do that which she is entitled to do by job

 

         16   description between meetings.

 

         17             I guess we need a formal action to approve

 

         18   that administrative position and administration to the

 

         19   amended document.

 

         20             MS. LYONS:  I so move for approval.

 

         21             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  There is a motion and

 

         22   a second.

 

         23             Any suggestion about that?  All in favor?

 

         24             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Aye.

 

         25             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Opposed?  Chair votes in

 

 

 

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          1   favor of the motion.  Motion carries.

 

          2             Okay.  Moving on.  Agenda item number four is

 

 

          3   consideration of new public service announcements.  And

 

          4   do we have Mr. Fisher with us?

 

          5             MR. LESSLY:  Mr. Fisher is with us.

 

          6             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Mr. Fisher, please join us

 

 

          7   and tell us about public service announcements.

 

          8             MR. FISHER:  Good morning and thank you for

 

          9   the opportunity to be here.

 

         10             I have four items on my agenda that I would

 

         11   like to do.  The first is I would like to report on the

 

         12   data that we have through the end of October of this

 

         13   year.

 

         14             Second of all, I want to answer questions or

 

         15   concerns that you may have with the goal to try and make

 

         16   you comfortable with what is being done and to encourage

 

         17   input from this board.

 

         18             Number three, I'm here to propose

 

         19   recommendations for 2004 based on what the board of

 

         20   directors of the Nevada Broadcaster's Association feels

 

         21   should be done in order to strengthen the marketing of

 

         22   the Nevada State Board of Medical Examiners.

 

         23             And number four, if it can be done, I would

 

         24   like to show you three 30-second commercials which are

 

         25   an example of the productions that the Nevada

 

 

 

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          1   Broadcaster's Association is involved with.

 

          2             So those are the four items that I have.

 

          3             First of all, beginning with number one, and

 

          4   at any point please, you know, certainly interrupt.

 

          5             The Nevada Broadcaster's Association campaign

 

          6   for the State Board of Medical Examiners began in

 

          7   January of this year.  So what I'm reporting to you is

 

          8   through the end of October.  And for those of you who

 

          9   are not familiar with it, it is not a public service

 

         10   announcement.  It shouldn't be labeled a public service

 

         11   announcement.  It is paid advertising.  It is called a

 

         12   noncommercial sustaining announcement, NCSA.

 

         13             We didn't name it.  The FCC did.  We don't

 

         14   like the name, but there are a lot of things the FCC

 

         15   does that we are not happy with.  But we don't want you

 

         16   to make the mistake that it is a public service

 

         17   announcement.

 

         18             Public service announcements are not

 

         19   necessarily tracked.  They are not guaranteed.  There

 

         20   are no affidavits normally for public service

 

         21   announcements.  And our Washington attorney calls the

 

         22   NCSA a strange duck.  So that's the most professional

 

         23   way I can say it to you.

 

         24             At the end of October the State Board of

 

         25   Medical Examiners has received $753,000 worth of

 

 

 

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          1   advertising for the $50,000 that had been expended at

 

          2   that point which means that you are receiving a 15.0

 

          3   return for your money.

 

          4             The guarantee by contract is three to one.

 

          5   You're receiving 15 to one.  And that is a composite of

 

          6   the eight months.  At the end of October you had

 

          7   received 7,500 television and radio commercials.  That

 

          8   is the data.

 

          9             It is my understanding that my office express

 

         10   mailed Larry the formalized report that should come

 

         11   today.  We actually wanted it to come yesterday.  It may

 

         12   be here now sitting at the front desk.  So let me --

 

         13   that's the raw data so let me share that with you.

 

         14             I don't know if anyone has any questions with

 

         15   regard to that, but those are the affidavit statistics.

 

         16             DR. LUBRITZ:  You said we had how many?

 

         17             MR. HUSE:  Excuse me.  This is Las Vegas

 

         18   calling.  Can we increase the volume on the speaker a

 

         19   little bit please?

 

         20             MR. FISHER:  Is this better?

 

         21             MR. HUSE:  That's a lot better.  Thank you,

 

         22   Mr. Fisher.

 

         23             MR. FISHER:  I'm sorry.  I'm in radio.  I

 

         24   don't know to turn on the microphone.

 

         25             MR. QUINN:  Was that 1,000 spots that we had?

 

 

 

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          1             MR. FISHER:  No, you had 7,500 spots.

 

          2             MR. QUINN:  Roughly how many were north and

 

          3   south?  Any idea on that?

 

          4             MR. FISHER:  That data can be --  I don't have

 

          5   that in front of me.  That can be broken down.  It can

 

          6   also be broken down north, south and rural.

 

          7             MADAM PRESIDENT:  We have it.  If you look in

 

          8   the agenda book under tab four, it breaks it down month

 

          9   to month.  And it breaks it down radio, television north

 

         10   and south and how many spots had aired for each.

 

         11             MR. LEGARZA:  We have it through October.

 

         12             MR. FISHER:  You will have that information

 

         13   today.

 

         14             Let me move to the second item which is

 

         15   answering questions or concerns.  I understand that some

 

         16   of you had some concerns.  And then I would like the

 

         17   opportunity to make some proposals, as I said, coming

 

         18   from my board of directors board to board.

 

         19             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Any questions from board

 

         20   members on what has been aired over the last year or

 

         21   formatted or any concerns?

 

         22             MR. FISHER:  Well then, the question will come

 

         23   in the proposal.  Is it possible to view this?

 

         24             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Let's test out our system to

 

         25   see if we can do it.  Where is Laurie?

 

 

 

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          1             We are going to attempt to show a couple of

 

          2   30-second videos.  We are hoping it gets down to you so

 

          3   let us know.

 

          4             Larry, can we find Laurie?

 

          5             MR. FISHER:  You know what, there is no plug

 

          6   available.  You don't want to unplug what is already

 

          7   plugged.  So that's fine.  I will leave them.  We are

 

          8   short an outlet so --

 

          9             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Do we have a power strip we

 

         10   can get?

 

         11             MR. FISHER:  That's all right.  You have a

 

         12   very long agenda.  If by the end of discussion there is

 

         13   a way to do it, that's fine.

 

         14             If there are no questions, then let me make

 

         15   some observations and share with you the concerns that

 

         16   the Broadcasters Association has.

 

         17             Right now the procedure for 2003 has been that

 

         18   this board of directors is approving a contract

 

         19   quarterly, every three months.  It is possible to do it

 

         20   that way.

 

         21             We have been doing it that way with you.  I

 

         22   will share that in our opinion it makes it very, very

 

         23   difficult.  Most of our, if not all, of our clients are

 

         24   year contracts.  Some are two-year contracts.  And when

 

         25   you have a year contract, then you also have a year

 

 

 

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          1   strategy.

 

          2             It is very difficult to do a strategy when you

 

          3   find out a few weeks or even a month before that you

 

          4   will be continuing a contract.  And that does not give

 

          5   an awful lot of continuity.  It also doesn't give the

 

          6   opportunity to really put together a plan.  And it is

 

          7   more thrown together as opposed to marketing an image

 

          8   and marketing an action that you want a telephone call

 

          9   being made really requires, I think, so some significant

 

         10   planning saying this is what we want to do for these

 

         11   three months.  This is what we want to do for this half

 

         12   year.  This is what we would like to accomplish.

 

         13             So the number one recommendation the Nevada

 

         14   Broadcaster's would like to make is you consider giving

 

         15   an annual contract as opposed to a quarterly contract

 

         16   and it's actually to your benefit.

 

         17             Will we continue to work with the board on a

 

         18   quarterly basis?  We will.

 

         19             I think you are doing yourselves a disservice,

 

         20   and I think more can be accomplished.

 

         21             Number two, I think that you are not spending

 

         22   enough especially in comparison with our other clients

 

         23   and with our other state clients.  And what I'm saying

 

         24   is that it's just you are underpaying especially for

 

         25   what you are getting.  And I think that one of the

 

 

 

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          1   things --

 

          2             We have two state contracts who are now at the

 

          3   point where they are receiving a million dollars worth

 

          4   of air play a year.

 

          5             So I would recommend that one of the things

 

          6   you may want to consider is spending more money means

 

          7   having more spots on the air based upon our experience.

 

          8             The third recommendation is that we would like

 

          9   to play more of a role in the production and the

 

         10   marketing of this NCSA plan.  We think there are things

 

         11   that need to be done, for example, because you will --

 

         12   obviously if I'm going to make that kind of comment, you

 

         13   need some specifics.

 

         14             I think it is wrong to do one-size-fits-all

 

         15   campaign for the State Board of Medical Examiners.  I

 

         16   think that commercials need to be slanted towards

 

         17   northern Nevada.  I think commercials need to be slanted

 

         18   toward southern Nevada, and I definitely think

 

         19   commercials need to be slanted towards rural Nevada.

 

         20             And we are not taking advantage of the ability

 

         21   to do that.  And if Nevada Broadcaster's takes the

 

         22   production, it certainly can happen.

 

         23             The other thing is too that I think we don't

 

         24   have enough variety of commercials that are on the air.

 

         25   And I also think --  I know it is tough sometimes to get

 

 

 

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          1   the content of the commercials passed through this board

 

          2   because the board does approve all of the ads which is

 

          3   the way that it should be.

 

          4             But, again, if we are doing three months, six

 

          5   months, nine months, twelve months --

 

          6             I was talking in the hall before.  We do the

 

          7   millennium scholarship marketing for the state.  And we

 

          8   are already working on some of the filming we are doing

 

          9   in June because the first millennium scholars are

 

         10   graduating -- the first four years are graduating and so

 

         11   we are working on that.

 

         12             I also think it would have been very

 

         13   appropriate to have a radio spot that was running and

 

         14   saying we want to wish everyone Happy Holidays and Happy

 

         15   New Years on behalf of the State Board of Medical

 

         16   Examiners, and we want you to know that we are committed

 

         17   to ABC or want you to know that your doctors are ABC.  I

 

         18   think there are ways to follow the calendar.  I think

 

         19   there are ways to follow the certain events that we have

 

         20   here in Nevada that is unusual.

 

         21             The other thing we have never really done with

 

         22   the state board is that there are added benefits that

 

         23   can be done.

 

         24             Nevada Broadcaster's is doing a town hall

 

         25   meeting in Ely on January 28, is doing a town hall

 

 

 

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          1   meeting in Elko on January 28.  We are doing Winnemucca

 

          2   and Fallon on January 29th.  And these are open town

 

          3   hall meetings to try and ascertain the concerns of the

 

          4   community.

 

          5             Attorney General Sanoval is one of the people

 

          6   who will be among the people who are with us.  And it

 

          7   would be wonderful if a representative from this board

 

          8   would also be there because there is no doubt there may

 

          9   be some concerns or some questions asked with regards to

 

         10   health care and with regards to medical service in those

 

         11   rural communities.

 

         12             So those are my recommendations.  And we can

 

         13   pick them a part and answer specifics.

 

         14             DR. BAEPLER:  I have a comment.  There will be

 

         15   an item on the agenda today or tomorrow relating to our

 

         16   performance audit that was conducted by the federation.

 

         17   And there is a recommendation in there, not a mandate,

 

         18   but a recommendation -- By the way, there is a couple of

 

         19   good ones in there -- that we go to a full-time PR

 

         20   person for the board.  One that I don't necessarily

 

         21   agree with by the way.  But would take probably $100,000

 

         22   a year to implement that program.

 

         23             We can't possibly consider it until the next

 

         24   fiscal year anyway because of our salary bubble this

 

         25   year.

 

 

 

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          1             But I noted, for example, Oklahoma that just

 

          2   came up with a $100,000 PR campaign.  They are using

 

          3   movie theaters which seems to me not to be a very good

 

          4   choice.  I don't know.  People don't take notes in a

 

          5   movie theater and jot down numbers and things.

 

          6             And printed media --  I like print media

 

          7   because the ad comes over the radio and on TV and by the

 

          8   time I realize I should take that number down, it's

 

          9   gone.  The print media people tend to peruse more

 

         10   carefully and clip it out.  There is certain advantages

 

         11   to print media.

 

         12             My basic question is it's hard to think of

 

         13   producing new commercials expanding the contract unless

 

         14   we know what kind of message we want to send to the

 

         15   public.  And I have never quite understood that.

 

         16             It seems to me --  I never see the things on

 

         17   TV.  I don't probably watch the right channels.  I have

 

         18   seen them, but not in the last six or seven months, let

 

         19   me put it that way.

 

         20             The message is kind of if you want to know

 

         21   some more about your doctor look at the home page.  That

 

         22   seems to me to be the only message we get.

 

         23             And, of course, our home page if you go to

 

         24   individual doctors to try and find out about their

 

         25   background, it's very, very limited information, you

 

 

 

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          1   know.

 

          2             And certainly I would not spend 75,000 or

 

          3   $100,000 if basically we want to tell them you can get

 

          4   information from the board by going to their home page

 

          5   or calling the office.  We are very limited as to what

 

          6   we can give them.

 

          7             On the other hand, some states such as Texas

 

          8   they have, you know, placards in every doctors' office

 

          9   that simply says medical board if you have questions and

 

         10   number, et cetera, while you are sitting there you can

 

         11   be made aware of the medical board.  The people who go

 

         12   to doctors' office are the ones who most likely ought to

 

         13   have this.

 

         14             We probably need more visibility.  But we

 

         15   certainly --  And perhaps some of this is due to the

 

         16   program you are putting on.

 

         17             There is excellent evidence that the people

 

         18   living in this state now know there is a medical board.

 

         19   The number of complaints and contacts and so on that we

 

         20   get have increased significantly.

 

         21             It's difficult for me to come to a snap

 

         22   decision today as to what we should do because, I guess,

 

         23   I don't quite understand the focus of the program.

 

         24             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I think one of the things

 

         25   that I see as valuable --

 

 

 

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          1             MR. HUSE:  Excuse me.  This is Las Vegas

 

          2   again.  Are all the people turning on their microphones?

 

          3             DR. BAEPLER:  No, I have not.

 

          4             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I think we forgot.

 

          5             MR. HUSE:  That's fine.  Thank you.

 

          6             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I think one of the things I

 

          7   see as valuable with this is and up until this point

 

          8   what we have had is an increased visibility to the

 

          9   board.  And I think one of the issues has been do we

 

         10   provide enough information to the public about ourselves

 

         11   and what we do and what information the public can

 

         12   access.  And I see this as a way to do that.

 

         13             And I think we have made some real significant

 

         14   progress.  And I certainly have had feedback who have

 

         15   seen both the TV ads and the radio spots.  And I think

 

         16   it's made a difference.  I think we can and should go

 

         17   forward and do better.

 

         18             I think the commercials that we have on the

 

         19   air now are a little tired.  They have been run for

 

         20   quite a long time.  I think they need to be updated and

 

         21   redone.  I think they are of value.

 

         22             And I think they are of particular value to

 

         23   the public who often, you know --

 

         24             Different media approach different people.  I

 

         25   think TV and radio are things that people may listen to

 

 

 

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          1   in their car on their way to work, late at night.  And I

 

          2   do think even if they may not be writing that number

 

          3   down, it provides visibility for us that they may then

 

          4   look us up in the phonebook and say I need to make a

 

          5   call on this.

 

          6             I personally think it is of value.

 

          7             DR. TITUS:  Let's review a little bit about --

 

          8   we have some documentation -- I think we have been

 

          9   keeping records, Maureen.  We started airing these

 

         10   publicity or information pieces with the number of

 

         11   increased phone calls.  Some of the members of the board

 

         12   may not have been here when we started taking them --

 

         13   actually taking hard numbers and data about how an

 

         14   increase of number of contacts we had from the private

 

         15   sector.  And I was curious, do you have any of that

 

         16   information with you?  It did seem like it made a

 

         17   tremendous difference with the phone call contacts and

 

         18   contacts.

 

         19             MS. LYONS:  I don't have that information with

 

         20   me.  I can tell you it has increased.  We have realized

 

         21   by talking with people on the phone that call in, we did

 

         22   do a survey and asked them how did you hear about the

 

         23   board.  And we did find that many of them were coming in

 

         24   and saying, Well, I saw your TV ad or I heard you on the

 

         25   radio.  So we did see a significant increase.

 

 

 

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          1             DR. TITUS:  I thought it was fairly dramatic.

 

          2   And it was pretty impressive how those calls were made.

 

          3   I agree with Cheryl and Don also.  It's not clear what

 

          4   our mission and goal is.

 

          5             Certainly I think we are obligated to make the

 

          6   public aware we exist and we are here to protect the

 

          7   public and their interests.  Not necessarily let them

 

          8   know about any particular physician, but let them know

 

          9   we are here to protect them and deal with concerns

 

         10   regarding their physicians.

 

         11             Not necessarily, in all due respect, about

 

         12   going to a public meeting about health care services are

 

         13   available in any rural town.  As a rural person that's

 

         14   not a role in particular to do that.

 

         15             But we certainly do need some availability to

 

         16   the public.  Whatever means.  I'm not so sure limiting

 

         17   it to radio and TV is appropriate.  And maybe this would

 

         18   be a good opportunity to rethink, number one, what our

 

         19   goals are, what we are trying to do, how it's best to

 

         20   serve those.

 

         21             Certainly radio and TV was just a -- my mind

 

         22   we were doing it as a quarterly.  This is just a trial

 

         23   basis to see what came of this.  And did we get the

 

         24   public informed and it was a need because we didn't have

 

         25   anything.

 

 

 

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          1             Maybe it's time to relook at all the options

 

          2   that are out there.

 

          3             MS. KIRCH:  If we went to an annual contract,

 

          4   what type of input would we have or could we have like a

 

          5   planning session with you and say these are the ones we

 

          6   figured out exactly what we wanted to get across.  These

 

          7   are the types of things we wanted to get across the

 

          8   public that we serve and then have you come back with

 

          9   some choices on how you do that or how you develop the

 

         10   spot.

 

         11             MR. FISHER:  We don't have to come back with a

 

         12   proposal because we have already been working together

 

         13   for three years.

 

         14             The fact is that your input is critical.  And

 

         15   where you want to go, what you want to do, and what you

 

         16   want the message so that it's self evident.

 

         17             If this is what you want, you want A, B, C, D

 

         18   and E, then we are going to do A, B, C, D, and E.  So

 

         19   that what you want is input you already have and you

 

         20   should have.

 

         21             And you should take more control or more

 

         22   input, more ideas.  If it strengthens it, that's what it

 

         23   is all about.

 

         24             I do want to react on one thing to help you

 

         25   understand something.  Advertising in movie theaters is

 

 

 

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          1   significantly better than advertising in a newspaper

 

          2   which is extremely costly because in a movie theater if

 

          3   you are the Army National Guard and you are interested

 

          4   in getting high school students interested in going to

 

          5   the Guard, then you put that advertisement in the movie

 

          6   theater before it starts, especially for a movie where

 

          7   teenagers are going.  It's targeted.

 

          8             What you are asking is actually reinforcement

 

          9   my comment that I think the radio commercials

 

         10   specifically need to be targeted for the rurals and the

 

         11   radio commercials need to be targeted for the north and

 

         12   for the south.

 

         13             And the movie theater example is a great

 

         14   example.  It's not just a general, let's put it in all.

 

         15   It's targeted.  That's what we can do, and that's what

 

         16   we want to do.  We want to target it better.

 

         17             As far as exploring all the other options, you

 

         18   should always do that.  And one of the things is that

 

         19   the reason why the NCSA was attractive to begin with and

 

         20   I think the reason why Arnie brought it to the attention

 

         21   of this board and Larry originally you are not paying

 

         22   $50,000 and getting $50,000 worth of advertising.

 

         23             Ladies and gentlemen, you are paying $50,000

 

         24   and getting $750,000 worth of advertising.

 

         25             So please when you do your comparative

 

 

 

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          1   shopping, which I encourage you should, absolutely,

 

          2   because we all do it, the bottom line is going to be you

 

          3   can do go downtown and you are not going to get a 15 to

 

          4   one return on your dollar.

 

          5             DR. BAEPLER:  One thing I cannot understand

 

          6   you are talking about a subject I know nothing about.

 

          7   If I operated a business and spent three quarters of a

 

          8   million dollars over what span of time was this?

 

          9             MR. FISHER:  Eight months.

 

         10             DR. BAEPLER:  If I spent three quarters of a

 

         11   million dollars over eight months, I would hope that the

 

         12   advertising would be a little bit more visible than what

 

         13   we seem to get, from my personal perspective.

 

         14             MR. FISHER:  You know what, I respect your

 

         15   opinion, but the affidavits speaks for themselves.  And

 

         16   I will tell you that the 7500 spots --

 

         17             One of the things that we do with Nevada

 

         18   Broadcaster's which is why we have the integrity we do.

 

         19   We don't over sell.  We under sell.

 

         20             Every time a television commercial airs in

 

         21   Reno, it also airs in Winnemucca or Fallon.  If you look

 

         22   in your reporting, that's not given there.

 

         23             So when I say that you have 7,500 advertising,

 

         24   which is in the affidavit, that does not consider the

 

         25   ones that are rebroadcast.  That also doesn't consider

 

 

 

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          1   but --

 

          2             I'm sorry that you have not seen it or you

 

          3   have not heard it, but someone has because the telephone

 

          4   calls speak for themselves.

 

          5             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Are we set up to show those

 

          6   little video clips or can we do it?

 

          7             MR. FISHER:  What you are going to see is

 

          8   three examples of commercials that we produced.

 

          9             DR. ANJUM:  Do you we have any set time --

 

         10             MR. FISHER:  That's reported in the

 

         11   affidavits.

 

         12             DR. ANJUM:  I have never seen those ads.

 

         13             MS. LYONS:  You don't know in advance.

 

         14             DR. ANJUM:  I watch TV, but I should be able

 

         15   to catch those ads.  Most people do watch TV.  How many

 

         16   people have seen those ads?

 

         17             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I have.

 

         18             MS. JONES:  I have.

 

         19             MR. LUBRITZ:  In the last six or eight months

 

         20   I have seen them once or twice, Mr. Fisher.

 

         21             MR. LUBRITZ:  How many other state boards do

 

         22   you represent and advertise for?

 

         23             MR. FISHER:  We are Nevada Broadcaster's.

 

         24             MR. LUBRITZ:  I guess I should rephrase this.

 

         25   Are there any other boards that you, Broadcasters --

 

 

 

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          1             MR. FISHER:  Are you talking about other

 

          2   states that --

 

          3             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Boards in Nevada.

 

          4             MR. LUBRITZ:  Boards in Nevada that you

 

          5   perform this service that you perform for us?

 

          6             DR. TITUS:  How many other professional boards

 

          7   in this state contract with you?

 

          8             MR. FISHER:  Majority of our clients are

 

          9   through the office of the governor, through the office

 

         10   of the attorney general, through the office of the state

 

         11   treasurer, health division, consumer affairs.

 

         12             You can go on our website which lists in a

 

         13   given month who the clients are.

 

         14             But this is the only board that I speak

 

         15   before.

 

         16             MR. LUBRITZ:  Thank you.

 

         17             MR. FISHER:  There is an advantage and

 

         18   disadvantage when it is board governed or board driven.

 

         19   Because of that it is important for us to make sure,

 

         20   which is why I'm here, that that -- the questions are

 

         21   flushed out, that the concerns are flushed out, so that

 

         22   everybody is comfortable with what they are doing so

 

         23   that we can make it better.

 

         24             MR. LUBRITZ:  Thank you.

 

         25             MR. FISHER:  These three commercials are for

 

 

 

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          1   oral health.

 

          2             MADAM PRESIDENT:  In light of the fact we are

 

          3   having technical difficulties, we will go ahead and move

 

          4   on.  If we can get this going, we can come back to it.

 

          5   We do have a really full day.  So we are going to keep

 

          6   going.

 

          7             MR. HUSE:  Thank you for that information.  We

 

          8   weren't sure what we were doing down here.

 

          9             DR. TITUS:  You send out a quarterly news

 

         10   review.

 

         11             MR. FISHER:  Here you go.

 

         12           (Videotape being shown of commercials.)

 

         13             MR. FISHER:  These three commercials were

 

         14   written by the Oral Health Board and they were driven by

 

         15   a board and the state approved of what the content and

 

         16   what exactly what the script was.

 

         17             DR. BAEPLER:  And the oral health board, is

 

         18   that a state board as well?

 

         19             MR. FISHER:  Yes.  State Health Division.

 

         20             The second one is similar but different.

 

         21             DR. TITUS:  Did you bring any of our tapes?

 

         22             MR. FISHER:  No.

 

         23             DR. ANJUM:  I would be interested in seeing

 

         24   our own.

 

         25             DR. ANWAR:  I'm aware of these.  These are

 

 

 

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          1   actual public health spots that are paid for under

 

          2   federal grants of the State Health Division from the CEC

 

          3   so I think it's a significantly different model than

 

          4   what you are talking about.

 

          5             MR. FISHER:  The point I wanted to make is

 

          6   that these are scripts that were generated by them, that

 

          7   were reviewed, and that I'm interested in the fact of

 

          8   the script because the question that was asked was

 

          9   input.

 

         10             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I think the board is faced

 

         11   with --

 

         12             MR. FISHER:  The difference is --  The reason

 

         13   I showed this is so that there is no misunderstanding

 

         14   these are spots that we produce.  You can see your ad.

 

         15   We didn't produce it.

 

         16             DR. TITUS:  Why don't you put that on because

 

         17   there are members of this board who have never seen

 

         18   that.

 

         19             MR. FISHER:  Fair.  Okay.

 

         20             (Videotape of the board commercials being

 

         21              played.)

 

         22             MADAM PRESIDENT:  That's it.

 

         23             MS. LYONS:  It kind of started in the middle.

 

         24             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  So we have an idea

 

         25   now.  And I apologize to you in Las Vegas who weren't

 

 

 

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          1   able to see.  We were showing a couple examples of

 

          2   commercials by the Nevada Broadcaster's for the spot

 

          3   that has been airing for the Board of Medical Examiners.

 

          4             What we are faced with now and what the board

 

          5   needs to decide is our contract expires the end of

 

          6   December.  And we need to make a decision whether we

 

          7   want to renew that contract or whether you want to think

 

          8   about it until the next meeting.  But that's what we

 

          9   need to decide at this point.  As we go forward --

 

         10             DR. MONTOYA:  The next meeting is after the

 

         11   contract?

 

         12             DR. BAEPLER:  There would be a break in

 

 

         13   service?

 

         14             MADAM PRESIDENT:  There would be no

 

         15   advertisements until our next meeting unless we decide

 

         16   something at this meeting, you are correct.

 

         17             DR. BAEPLER:  I'd just reiterate what we said

 

         18   before.  If we are well advised under the terms of that

 

         19   performance audit through the federation to consider our

 

         20   PR option, and it is PR, I don't quite know how as a

 

 

         21   board we would address that.  There are options out

 

         22   there.  But I do reiterate the fundamental point what is

 

         23   it that --

 

         24             MR. HUSE:  Excuse me.  We are having trouble

 

         25   hearing the speaker.

 

 

 

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          1             DR. BAEPLER:  I was just suggesting we need to

 

          2   review our options as to how we want to conduct our

 

          3   public relations programs.  But, most importantly, we

 

          4   need to define just what is it we are trying to convey

 

          5   to the public.  The ones you showed us as an example had

 

          6   a very clear message.  It was definitely focused.

 

          7             I do not feel that ours are that focused and

 

          8   have never understood precisely what it is that we wish

 

          9   to convey to the public.  That's my concern.

 

         10             MS. KIRCH:  I think as a board we have to

 

         11   decide that because we can't give direction to anybody

 

         12   including the Nevada Broadcaster's Association of what

 

         13   we want to get out to the public unless we know what it

 

         14   is.  And I don't know that we have done that.

 

         15             MADAM PRESIDENT:  May I make a suggestion that

 

         16   we maybe consider having a sub-committee of the board

 

         17   look at this and come back to us and perhaps get with

 

         18   you, Mr. Fisher, and look at some possibilities and come

 

         19   back to us in our March meeting?

 

         20             I don't think there is a consensus that I'm

 

         21   hearing at this meeting, and perhaps that would be

 

         22   helpful.  But I would need some volunteers to do that.

 

         23             DR. MONTOYA:  I will volunteer.  As part of

 

         24   this I would like to say up front we need to get

 

         25   different information out there instead of call the

 

 

 

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          1   board and find out about your doctor.

 

          2             Nevada doctors are good.  And the board is

 

          3   trying to help protect the public and make sure that the

 

          4   doctors are good.  There is a lot of information out

 

          5   there that is -- especially through the legislative

 

          6   process that we just have been through that says all

 

          7   doctors are bad, watch out for Nevada, especially with

 

          8   prominent people leaving the State for their cares.

 

          9             We have to make sure that people understand

 

         10   that Nevada doctors are good.  We have trained at good

 

         11   places.  And that's going to be --  If I'm going to be

 

         12   on our sub-committee, if it's all right with you, that's

 

         13   going to be one of my thrusts.

 

         14             DR. BAEPLER:  That would be a good message.

 

         15             MS. KIRCH:  I would be happy to work on it as

 

         16   well.

 

         17             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Is there anyone else who

 

         18   would be willing to be --  I think it would be great to

 

         19   have three.  Is there anyone from the north end that

 

         20   would be willing to do that?  I know everybody is over

 

         21   burdened.

 

         22             Well, why don't we start with the two of you

 

         23   and if anybody else has interest in -- Tony, you will

 

         24   help with that as well?

 

         25             MR. CLARK:  Yes.

 

 

 

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          1             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Over the next couple of

 

          2   months get some ideas together and come back to the

 

          3   board and come back to the March meeting and we will

 

          4   involve you in that process as well.

 

          5             I appreciate you coming and sharing your

 

          6   advertisements.

 

          7             MR. CLARK:  Would the board consider going on

 

          8   with the contract that is currently in place until we

 

          9   get to March so it's January, February, March on the

 

         10   current basis?  Extend it for another three months so we

 

         11   don't run into a dead period where we have nothing going

 

         12   on advertising-wise for the board.

 

         13             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I think that's reasonable.

 

         14             DR. MONTOYA:  Will the broadcasters take

 

         15   another quarterly contract?

 

         16             MR. FISHER:  We are going to work with you in

 

         17   any way possible.  I think the fact that there is a

 

         18   sub-committee that will now, you know, take it and so

 

         19   that we can --

 

         20             The biggest problem is that there are some

 

         21   misconceptions and so if we can clear those up and then

 

         22   strength what we are doing, it's good.

 

         23             But to answer your question, absolutely.  But

 

         24   I would also suggest that one of the possibilities is

 

         25   that rather than having a presentation in March and then

 

 

 

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          1   talking at that, I would rather also, as long as it's

 

          2   just a sub-committee in place, have scripts and have

 

          3   tangibles that people can see so that we don't lose even

 

          4   more time.

 

          5             MADAM PRESIDENT:  No, I think that would be

 

          6   great if we could get some things put together for the

 

          7   board to review in March.  That would be terrific.  And

 

          8   if people feel --

 

          9             If the board members feel okay about extending

 

         10   the contract, then I would need a motion to do that.  So

 

         11   we would continue the current structure that we have in

 

         12   place now for this next quarter, and then in March

 

         13   hopefully we will have something else to build from.

 

         14             MEMBER OF THE BOARD:  So moved.

 

         15             MEMBER OF THE BOARD:  Second.

 

         16             MADAM PRESIDENT:  There is a motion and a

 

         17   second.  Discussion?

 

         18             MR. LUBRITZ:  What will be the cost for this

 

         19   coming quarter?

 

         20             MR. FISHER:  Same cost that it's been,

 

         21   $15,000.  Five thousand dollars a month for three

 

         22   months.

 

         23             MR. LUBRITZ:  Thank you.

 

         24             MR. FISHER:  You are already paid through

 

         25   December so you still have advertising taking place in

 

 

 

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          1   the months of November and December.

 

          2             MADAM PRESIDENT:  All in favor?

 

          3             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Aye.

 

          4             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Oppose?  Chair votes in

 

          5   favor of the motion.  Motion carries.  So we will

 

          6   continue in March and have our report in March and

 

          7   hopefully have some scripts to look at.

 

          8             At this time I would like to take a brief

 

          9   recess, and we will come back in about 10 minutes.

 

         10                    (A recess was taken.)

 

         11             MADAM PRESIDENT:  We'll move to the agenda

 

         12   item number five which is the amendments of NAC chapter

 

         13   630, and I'm going to turn that over to Mr. Legarza.

 

         14             MR. LEGARZA:  We are missing Mr. Mathiesen.

 

         15   We conducted the workshops on these proposed

 

         16   regulations, the majority of which are simply going to

 

         17   permanent regulations from temporary regulations with

 

         18   the exception of section two on the first page, which is

 

         19   the act of terrorism required by the Nevada State

 

         20   Legislature, and the section three, the requirement for

 

         21   physicians and physicians assistants to have -- to be

 

         22   encouraged to take CMEs in geriatrics.

 

         23             And we, of course, on those regulations are to

 

         24   give them extra credit for their attendance.

 

         25             The rest of the things were simply getting

 

 

 

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          1   into permanent form the temporary regulations that we

 

          2   had already adopted.

 

          3             At the workshop in Reno no one attended it.

 

          4             At the workshop in Las Vegas Dr. Brava, who is

 

          5   in Las Vegas today, attended as well as Mr. Mathiesen

 

          6   attended.

 

          7             Mr. Mathiesen didn't make any oral

 

          8   presentations but he did hand me the Nevada State

 

          9   Medical Associations Physicians' statement.  And I know

 

         10   he is here, and I don't know whether he wants to be

 

         11   heard on these proposed regulations.

 

         12             MS. MUNSON:  I did tell him we were going into

 

         13   session, and he was on his way.  He should be here any

 

         14   second.

 

         15             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.

 

         16             MR. LEGARZA:  As I read this input --

 

         17   generally, the input of the Nevada State Medical

 

         18   Association with respect to the first set --

 

         19             Well, maybe I better wait until he gets here.

 

         20             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Why don't you review the

 

         21   basic changes in the regs until he comes back.

 

         22             MR. LEGARZA:  The legislature passed NRS

 

         23   632.53 which said physicians had to get these four hours

 

         24   of CMEs within a certain period of time to continue

 

         25   their licensure in the state of Nevada.

 

 

 

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          1             This is a one-time requirement.  It's not

 

          2   something that has to be done annually.  It's only one

 

          3   time.  That's what section two is, that they are to have

 

          4   this CME, only these four hours, on a one time, one-shot

 

          5   deal.

 

          6             Section three is simply the legislature

 

          7   requested that we encourage physicians to take -- that

 

          8   are involved with geriatrics and gerontology to take

 

          9   extra CMEs in those areas.  And the proposed regulation

 

         10   says they will get extra credit for CMEs that they

 

         11   attended in those areas.

 

         12             MADAM PRESIDENT:  And then if you would go

 

         13   through the changes that are proposed as far as the

 

         14   competency that are --

 

         15             MR. LEGARZA:  Well, that's a completely

 

         16   different.  That's a completely different one.

 

         17             MADAM PRESIDENT:  You would rather hold off on

 

         18   that?

 

         19             MR. LEGARZA:  What you are doing today with

 

         20   this first set of regulations -- proposed regulations

 

         21   for the board of medical examiners today you are either

 

         22   deciding to adopt these regulations or not adopt these

 

         23   regulations.

 

         24             They have been through the whole process.  The

 

         25   other set of regulations is something completely

 

 

 

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          1   different that you will be looking at with respect to

 

          2   which you may or may not do.

 

          3             MADAM PRESIDENT:  No.  No.  I'm talking about

 

          4   the proposed changes that you brought to us last time

 

          5   that changed the requirements for taking the specs exam

 

          6   that --

 

          7             MR. LEGARZA:  That's another new one, too.

 

          8   I'm sorry.

 

          9             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Yeah.  That's included in

 

         10   what we need to approve today.  And I think we need to

 

         11   talk about that.

 

         12             MR. LEGARZA:  Where is that?

 

         13             MADAM PRESIDENT:  That is section six at the

 

         14   bottom of -- right after the gerontology.  And it talks

 

         15   about the fact that we currently -- if you have not

 

         16   taken a major exam within ten years are required, for

 

         17   licensees or new licensees, to take the specs.

 

         18             But there has been some changes.  And if you

 

         19   just want to address those or I think if you want --

 

         20             MR. LEGARZA:  The changes are that you can

 

         21   take an examination.  It used to be under the regulation

 

         22   that you had to take -- under the NRS chapter, section

 

         23   E, the only examination that was available to you if you

 

         24   hadn't been tested within 10 years was specs.

 

         25             Now the change is acceptable otherwise

 

 

 

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          1   provided in section two.  In Larry's comments that he

 

          2   gave to me, the medical society was concerned about this

 

          3   language and lack of specific definition with respect to

 

          4   the examinations and the types of tests that would be

 

 

          5   conducted.

 

          6             I will represent to you that I spent a lot of

 

          7   time with the lawyers with the Legislative Council

 

          8   Bureau trying to get the message from me and me trying

 

          9   to get the message that the intent of the board was to

 

         10   have these options and that the board would then give

 

         11   the applicant, as I understood it, either the option to

 

         12   take a different one or the board would designate what

 

         13   type of tests the applicant would have.

 

         14             And Mr. Mathiesen was concerned about lack of

 

         15   specific definition.  I don't think any more definition

 

         16   needs to be put in this thing, but then Mr. Mathiesen

 

         17   had his presentation.  And he is here, and he may have

 

         18   something further to say with respect to that.

 

         19             With respect to the rest of the regulations in

 

         20   here, with the exception of the anti-terrorism

 

         21   regulation and some of the questions in that that

 

         22   Mr. Mathiesen had as I understand from the presentation

 

         23   that he gave at the workshop, everything else is in

 

         24   agreement with -- except for this language here and with

 

         25   maybe some alternate proposals for consideration on the

 

 

 

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          1   anti-terrorism, is that correct, Larry?

 

          2             MR. MATHIESEN:  Larry Mathiesen, Nevada State

 

          3   Medical Association.  Generally there were several areas

 

 

          4   where we suggested expanding.

 

          5             And in this particular section either within

 

          6   the regulation -- that's why we also offered it as an

 

          7   option.  You can do it in your newsletter -- is to

 

          8   simply sort of indicate what the board has in mind as

 

          9   acceptable alternate tests.  It's just that at some

 

         10   point simply to have out there so that there is a sense

 

         11   of what the options are rather than leaving it at just

 

         12   the other options considered by the board.  So it doesnt

 

         13   have to be in the regulation.

 

         14             MR. LEGARZA:  Got you.  And then you had some

 

         15   suggestions for consideration on the anti-terrorism one

 

         16   with respect to giving credit for some military service

 

         17   training and maybe some other training.  And I think

 

         18   that was --

 

         19             MR. MATHIESEN:  I mean, the effort that you

 

         20   got is really -- is to consider future CME courses that

 

         21   would comply with the anti-terrorism act.  And, as you

 

         22   know, I think that the educational part of that act, of

 

         23   that legislation, was not very well thought out.

 

         24             It applies to EMTs, to your licensees, to

 

         25   nurses and to dentists.  And why it doesn't apply to

 

 

 

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          1   others, isn't clear.  Why every physician or every

 

          2   dentist should know about what this mas-destruction is

 

          3   unclear as well.

 

          4             But, of course, most physicians who do need to

 

          5   know about the issues of communicable disease of

 

          6   mas-injuries that may come as a result of an act of

 

          7   terrorism are already or in the process of getting that

 

          8   education.

 

          9             What we were suggesting was that you could

 

         10   also accept proof from the physician that they have

 

         11   complied already with training so they didn't just have

 

         12   to take a CME course that would be offered in the next

 

         13   two years.

 

         14             Also, that you might want to consider as an

 

         15   alternative option a proof of training that they have --

 

         16   if they just come out of the military, they have now had

 

         17   significant training in this area.

 

         18             Same thing with those who are public health

 

         19   officers who have been trained through the public health

 

         20   services.  They have had more than the minimum that is

 

         21   in the law.  And you might want to deem that as

 

         22   sufficient.

 

         23             So it was just encouraging flexibility in the

 

         24   interpretation of how to comply with this law because I

 

         25   think there are many routes to do it.

 

 

 

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          1             And what we really want, I think the most, is

 

          2   just an assurance that physicians and the other health

 

          3   professionals in the state are adequately prepared to

 

          4   deal with the possible ramifications of an exposure to a

 

          5   weapon of mas-destruction or other terrorist acts.

 

          6             DR. TITUS:  To add on, when I read your

 

          7   comments, Larry, for me as a rural county health officer

 

          8   since 911 we have been involved in a lot of extra

 

          9   training on the whole bio-terrorism.  I thought the fact

 

         10   that you even made the comment about public health

 

         11   officers such as myself -- that would certainly qualify

 

         12   the amount of time I have already spent.

 

         13             And, also, I disagree with you in the sense

 

         14   that I think the legislature is right in asking any

 

         15   public health professional or trying to -- not only to

 

         16   public health people but people in primary care, people

 

         17   in dentistry because they may be the front line to a

 

         18   terrorist attack.  They may be the ones that are needed

 

         19   to see whether anything is out there.

 

         20             It may be the dentist who looks in your mouth

 

         21   and sees an abnormality.  It might be like the internal

 

         22   medicine doctor in Florida who was astute enough to

 

         23   recognize that infection was a rare thing that he was

 

         24   dealing with something different.  Just a primary care

 

         25   and internal medicine doctor figured it out.  And so I

 

 

 

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          1   think the legislature is right in looking at anybody who

 

          2   may be the person seeing it needs to do it.

 

          3             MR. MATHIESEN:  Larry Mathiesen.  I certainly

 

          4   agree with that.  When the anthrax issue came up and

 

          5   when small pox issue came up, it was really primary care

 

          6   physicians and physicians from the emergency departments

 

          7   who were the first with a deluge of questions and

 

          8   concerns.

 

          9             And all of that the training needs to go on.

 

         10   It's just the particular package of the list in the

 

         11   statute is one person's idea of what is proper.

 

         12             I think overall our concern with this as I

 

         13   think the board's concern with this approach is the

 

         14   legislature should not be mandating the contents of

 

         15   continuing medical education.  As things are

 

         16   appropriate, that should be done.

 

         17             They have done it here so we have to find a

 

         18   way to deal with that and comply with the express wishes

 

         19   of the legislature, but do it in a way that doesn't

 

         20   cause unnecessary complications, costs and confusion

 

         21   that we get physicians up to snuff as quickly as

 

         22   possible.  And that may mean a number of different

 

         23   options.

 

         24             MR. LEGARZA:  I probably get at least five

 

         25   maybe more calls a week from either physicians or

 

 

 

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          1   someone on their staff wanting to know what this means

 

          2   and how can I get it and where can I get it.

 

          3             And when we first started this, I went on the

 

          4   Internet and I found one site.  I was just in there not

 

          5   more than two minutes, and it looks like -- and I have

 

          6   been representing to physicians who have been calling

 

          7   that it looks like there are a bunch of people.  There

 

          8   is Florida Medical Association.  Here is American

 

          9   Academy of Family Physicians.  CME Anti-terrorism.  And

 

         10   here is just Yahoo search cme.com that has -- I hit

 

         11   about five of these.  The U.S. Army Medical Research

 

         12   Institute.

 

         13             So it looks there is a whole bunch of stuff so

 

         14   people are getting on board making this stuff available.

 

         15   It doesn't look like availability for category CMEs is

 

         16   going to be an issue over the next two years before

 

         17   these people have to comply with this thing for their

 

         18   new continuing -- new licensure.

 

         19             So that was the big concern about all the docs

 

         20   I have been talking to.  Where is this?  How can I get

 

         21   this?  And I tell them get on the web, and you will be

 

         22   able to find things.  And you have certainly two years

 

         23   to get it.

 

         24             If you want to change and implement some of

 

         25   these other things, you can give credit for other than

 

 

 

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          1   category one CME.  You can do that.  You can have the

 

          2   input from the medical society.  The language can be

 

          3   changed.  I can work on that kind of language.  And it

 

          4   will be maybe reworked by the legislative council bureau

 

          5   but if you want to have that portion amended --

 

          6             I think you have to leave alone the

 

          7   mandate-type language because it's been mandated.  We

 

          8   can't promulgate a regulation that goes against a state

 

          9   mandate.  But if you want to make some stipulation for

 

         10   the military or state officer that Larry has suggested,

 

         11   I can do that and do that quickly.

 

         12             MR. LESSLY:  Also, I'm aware that there is an

 

         13   effort by the State Health Division the two different --

 

         14   Clark County and Washoe County District Health

 

         15   Department and AHAC through the school of medicine to

 

         16   actually put together a fully compliant CME program.

 

         17   We'll be working with them to maybe make that available

 

         18   on CDs and available to all the physicians in the

 

         19   states.

 

         20             MR. LEGARZA:  I think the doctors will be able

 

         21   to comply.

 

         22             MR. LESSLY:  It's just that more paths you

 

         23   provide seems to me more likely that these physicians

 

         24   will not feel that this is onerous and not feel that

 

         25   they are forced to do something that they otherwise

 

 

 

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          1   won't do.

 

          2             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Dr. Brava, did you have a

 

          3   comment as to that as well?

 

          4             DR. BRAVA:  Yes, I do, Cheryl.  May I address

 

          5   these three issues right now briefly?

 

          6             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Sure.

 

          7             DR. BRAVA:  First of all, I think all of the

 

          8   three items need to be referred back to the legislature.

 

          9             These are merely products of people thinking

 

         10   they will be a good idea.  And if the legislature

 

         11   continues in this way we will all be driving Chevrolets

 

         12   and eating apple pie.

 

         13             As far as the competency exam goes, there has

 

         14   been no demonstrated need for that.  I'm unaware of any

 

         15   information showing that there were fewer complications,

 

         16   incidents, or law suits among those people who have not

 

         17   been tested in the last 10 years.

 

         18             There are a number of boards that do have

 

         19   optional testing on ten-year intervals now and that

 

         20   information should be available.

 

         21             Secondly, the competency testing places a

 

         22   fairly large burden on the physician who would then go

 

         23   to take a review course.

 

         24             MR. LEGARZA:  We are talking about the regs

 

         25   that we have the workshop on.  We are not to the

 

 

 

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          1   competency theme yet.

 

          2             DR. BRAVA:  I'm sorry.  I thought that was

 

          3   already included.

 

          4             MR. LEGARZA:  No, sir.

 

          5             DR. BRAVA:  All right.  I will switch to the

 

          6   anti-terrorism speech.

 

          7             Again, there has been no need established for

 

          8   this.  The anthrax problem was handled properly.  The

 

          9   west Nile problem has been handled properly.

 

         10             We have the same burden of four hours of

 

         11   additional training and testing, time away from the

 

         12   practice.  And there is a negative financial affect on

 

         13   those licensees out of state who don't practice here and

 

         14   may just give up the license rather than paying a fee

 

         15   every year that you use for the Broadcaster's

 

         16   Association.

 

         17             And I think there are certainly 14th amendment

 

         18   considerations in here.  I don't claim that physicians

 

         19   are discrete and insular minorities, but it is fairly

 

         20   obvious that this doesn't apply to osteopathic

 

         21   physicians, triage nurses, public health nurses, school

 

         22   teachers, food handlers and all sorts of individuals who

 

         23   might be the first line of encountering a terrorism

 

         24   attack.

 

         25             I think the law was poorly designed.  It was

 

 

 

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          1   passed almost in secret according to my information.

 

          2   There was no notice or opportunity for hearing by those

 

          3   who were aggrieved by the measure.

 

          4             If the board does not wish to refer this

 

          5   matter back to the legislature in what I see is a

 

          6   stand-up position for physicians then I suggest that the

 

          7   course be provided at public expense on a CD disk for

 

          8   home-study purposes.

 

          9             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Thank you, Dr. Brava.

 

         10             I just want ask to clarify that the provisions

 

         11   that were instituted by the legislature were not brought

 

         12   forward by the State board.

 

         13             We were as surprised by this as anybody else.

 

         14   But be that as it may, the statute is in place and we

 

         15   are left to deal with that.

 

         16             I think certainly it's an issue that can be

 

         17   raised at the next legislative session.  But in the

 

         18   meantime, we have to come up with ways to ensure that we

 

         19   meet this requirement.

 

         20             And I think we have heard from Mr. Mathiesen's

 

         21   suggestions on how to perhaps moderate it just a bit.  I

 

         22   think personally from my standpoint I think that is

 

         23   reasonable certainly with the military and to

 

         24   incorporate some of their training seems reasonable to

 

         25   me.

 

 

 

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          1             I think that all of the agencies are working

 

          2   towards developing CMEs that will be available and not

 

          3   very painful to comply with.  And that's what we are all

 

          4   working towards I think.

 

          5             But the requirement is in place.  I think

 

          6   certainly we can go back and as Mr. Legarza has stated

 

          7   that we have the opportunity to moderate what we are

 

          8   accepting as the CME requirement.  But the requirement

 

          9   is there.

 

         10             DR. BRAVA:  I would like to request credit for

 

         11   my medical education for national defense that I took 50

 

         12   years ago.

 

         13             And I would like clarification on how to give

 

         14   extra credit for those who take courses in geriatrics.

 

         15   What does that mean?

 

         16             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Basically with the

 

         17   geriatrics that is not a requirement but a suggestion

 

         18   made by the legislature that CMEs be given.  So for

 

         19   people who take that suggestion and incorporate that

 

         20   part as part of their CME, they will be given double

 

         21   credit hours up to a maximum of eight.

 

         22             MR. LEGARZA:  That's correct.  It's not a

 

         23   mandate.  The legislature has requested that we

 

         24   encourage it.

 

         25             The board felt one way to encourage it was to

 

 

 

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          1   give two for one for attendance up to a maximum of eight

 

          2   for four.

 

          3             MADAM PRESIDENT:  And the other thing that I

 

          4   want to point out for the benefit of the board members

 

          5   because I think with all of these changes it gets

 

          6   confusing but with the passage of SB332 -- I think that

 

          7   gets into them or not -- you got distributed this

 

          8   morning just this summary.

 

          9             And this was something I asked Dick to do as a

 

         10   reminder of the changes in licensure that were passed by

 

         11   332.  And, that is, there was a category created for

 

         12   administrative physicians that again this is from the

 

         13   legislature that allows counties and public agencies to

 

         14   recruit physicians for administrative roles only.

 

         15             They would not be allowed to be seeing

 

         16   clinical patients.

 

         17             Secondly, that there is a change that allows

 

         18   the governor to determine where there are critically

 

         19   unmet needs in this state with specific specialties of

 

         20   physicians who are practicing within this state and

 

         21   within those specific cases where the governor

 

         22   determines it's a critical need, the three-year post

 

         23   graduate training can be waived and that with one year

 

         24   post graduate training and five years of clinical

 

         25   experience they can be licensed.

 

 

 

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          1             And then the third one is one that we will see

 

          2   later on today in some of our appearances and that is

 

          3   the ability to grant licensure by endorsement which

 

          4   again allows discretion to this board to waive one or

 

          5   more of the requirements.

 

          6             Now, I called your attention in the different

 

          7   section and that Dick has already discussed, but one of

 

          8   the things that is being proposed by the change in

 

          9   regulations today is that -- is to change the specs

 

         10   requirement.

 

         11             In other words, give us more options for

 

         12   assessing competency for someone who has not taken a

 

         13   test within the last 10 years.  And to clarify that,

 

         14   again, it would be either taking the specs exam or an

 

         15   examination testing competence conducted by physicians

 

         16   or any other examinations that is approved by the board

 

         17   designed to test competence of the applicant.

 

         18             It's important that we talk about this now

 

         19   because I think it will be important for us later in

 

         20   some of our appearances for our applicants that are

 

         21   going to be applying for licensure by endorsement which

 

         22   I think that all of us as board members since we talked

 

         23   about last time gives us too much leeway and it makes it

 

         24   unclear as to what criterion we use by licensure for

 

         25   endorsement and when it's okay to waive certain

 

 

 

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          1   standards.

 

          2             So our hope is that by changing these

 

          3   regulations and allowing a little more flexibility with

 

          4   requiring the specs exam and allowing other methods to

 

          5   assess competency, that we will in affect be able to

 

          6   have a separate way of evaluating people and not having

 

          7   them licensed by endorsement.

 

          8             So I just wanted to clarify both of these

 

          9   things because I think it's confusing.

 

         10             DR. MONTOYA:  Are you ready for discussion on

 

         11   the last one?

 

         12             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Yes.

 

         13             DR. MONTOYA:  I believe we are accepting

 

         14   people who have recently passed their boards,

 

         15   recertified their boards, or who have just finished the

 

         16   residency for licensure, especially these people who are

 

         17   looking for license by endorsement.  Those are all valid

 

         18   tests.

 

         19             Essentially residency is one long test and at

 

         20   the end they get a letter that says they finished it or

 

         21   didn't finish it completely.  Otherwise, they wouldn't

 

         22   be able to apply at all.

 

         23             Board recertification I think we have to

 

         24   depend on the board because they are all part of the

 

         25   National Board of Examiners.  They all meet the National

 

 

 

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          1   Board of Examiners' criterion which I don't think we

 

          2   should quote ourselves too far above those people.

 

          3             And finish residency and reboard

 

          4   recertification and completed board certification, those

 

          5   were the three things I think we had to consider for

 

          6   licensure.

 

          7             We have had a lot of those by endorsement,

 

          8   people applying by endorsement.  And I'm a little

 

          9   dismayed to see people who have retaken their boards and

 

         10   have to reseek licensure by endorsement.  I don't

 

         11   consider it a major exam.  I get 35 CMEs every year when

 

         12   I take mine and that's a lot of work.

 

         13             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I think, again, to clarify,

 

         14   the way the proposal in the revision to the statute

 

         15   would allow us to accept those.  It would allow us to

 

         16   look at examinations that we feel test and evaluate the

 

         17   competence and that may include board recertification or

 

         18   pure review exams.

 

         19             DR. MONTOYA:  Or recertification.

 

         20             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Recertification.

 

         21             MR. LEGARZA:  This board has been down that

 

         22   road before with the recertification.  We used to have

 

         23   that as one of the things that the board would consider

 

         24   specifically in the regulation.

 

         25             And then the question came up, What is the

 

 

 

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          1   difference between the recertification of the different

 

          2   boards, whether they are proctored examinations, whether

 

          3   they are not proctored examinations, whether it can

 

          4   happen on line.

 

          5             And the board engaged in looking at these

 

          6   examinations and discussions with the national boards

 

          7   and there was a hesitation and reluctance of the people

 

          8   on behalf of many of the boards to even give us the

 

          9   information as to the type of examination that each

 

         10   board gave.

 

         11             And the information that was going on back and

 

         12   forth on the table between the medical people were some

 

         13   of them were really strange, some of them were really

 

         14   tough, and some were not anything.  And they didn't

 

         15   think there was any quality in the recertification.  So

 

         16   the recertification was removed I think in like 1999.

 

         17             DR. TITUS:  I can tell you that the American

 

 

         18   Board of Medical Examiners has now changed its position

 

         19   on that.  And they now have come on board about this

 

         20   whole issue about retraining and retesting.

 

         21             And I have some concerns having recently

 

         22   retaken my family practice boards that the family

 

         23   practice boards have come on board and looking at

 

         24   changing how we do this and it's this life-long learning

 

         25   maintaining proficiency.

 

 

 

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          1             One of the things we have to be careful about

 

          2   as I have said right from the beginning about this

 

          3   testing and relicensure issues is that we can do all of

 

          4   these tests and relicense and require that they take all

 

          5   these tests and we cannot promise the citizens of this

 

          6   state that their doctors are competent.

 

          7             The American Board of Family Practice is using

 

          8   terms like they are going to look at proficiency.  They

 

          9   have said and process a whole bunch of things including

 

         10   testing, including office charts, including the fact

 

         11   they are in the good standing in their state to say that

 

         12   yes that's a proficient physician.  They know their

 

         13   information that they know.  Not using the word

 

         14   competent physician.

 

         15             Because if we say to the citizens of this

 

         16   state all the physicians that we license is competent,

 

         17   there should be zero lawsuits.  There should be no

 

         18   malpractice, but we all know there will be -- we all

 

         19   know there will be mistakes made.

 

         20             I want to put it out there that competency is

 

         21   an issue that maybe we can't assure people.

 

         22             DR. MONTOYA:  Competency is a different issue

 

         23   than what we were addressing here.  That is a different

 

         24   issue.

 

         25             What we are talking about is licensure by

 

 

 

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          1   endorsement, and we were saying they had to have taken a

 

          2   major test in the last 10 years.  And I'm saying

 

          3   reupping your boards or finishing a residency is a major

 

          4   examination, not just for traditional licensure.

 

          5             DR. TITUS:  It was only after 10 years that we

 

          6   were looking at not giving --

 

          7             DR. MONTOYA:  That's why I said reupping the

 

          8   boards.

 

          9             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I think perhaps it's time to

 

         10   revisit that because I do agree with you that in the

 

         11   last couple of meetings I think that the feelings have

 

         12   been different as far as recertification.

 

         13             And I think individual boards have taken a

 

         14   different approach to that as well.  And some of the

 

         15   boards that may have had more lacked recertifications

 

         16   have changed their policies.  And so it may be time to

 

         17   relook or resurvey some of the specialty boards to see

 

         18   what exactly they are doing for recertification.

 

         19             DR. TITUS:  I want to agree with you, Steve, I

 

         20   think now because the national boards have come on board

 

         21   with this concept that we should accept.  I agree that

 

         22   recertification is one of the standards that we can use

 

         23   when somebody is applying.  I agree with that

 

         24   absolutely.

 

         25             DR. BAEPLER:  We have examined that issue and

 

 

 

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          1   discussed it with several people at the national

 

          2   meetings and the federation.  And I think there are some

 

          3   generalizations that can be made that tend to definitely

 

          4   agree with your position.

 

          5             Number one, of the 21 or 23 or whatever boards

 

          6   there is only a couple that don't have recertification

 

          7   possibilities and they have scheduled dates in which

 

          8   they will begin.

 

          9             There is a general tendency among all of these

 

         10   boards to increase the examination to a more meaningful

 

         11   type of exam which some boards already have -- some are

 

         12   non-proctored exams -- the tendency is to increase the

 

         13   standards for recertification.  And several of the

 

         14   boards are now even including pure review.

 

         15             So they also you know used to vehemently

 

         16   oppose using their exams by boards such as ours for

 

         17   purposes of licensure and all of that.

 

         18             They don't want to see their specialists get

 

         19   in a position where if they fail their recertification

 

         20   they are going to lose their license.  No, they don't

 

         21   want to see that.  Neither do we.

 

         22             I don't think they have any objections

 

         23   whatever though if we use their exams in order to

 

         24   establish proficiency.

 

         25             I don't see how we can ignore the

 

 

 

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          1   recertification examinations in the specialties,

 

          2   particularly since they are getting more rigorous.

 

          3             DR. ANWAR:  I have a comment on that.  My

 

          4   comment is that when somebody takes recertification

 

          5   examinations, that really is the best academic tool that

 

          6   we have to allow them to practice that specialty or a

 

          7   sub-specialty --

 

          8             MR. HUSE:  We cannot hear the speaker.

 

          9             MR. ANWAR:  My comment is that we really don't

 

         10   have a better tool of academic assessment in a specialty

 

         11   or a sub-specialty other than certification or

 

         12   recertification in that specialty.

 

         13             And to say from an academic point of view that

 

         14   there should be another standard to tie them to practice

 

         15   their specialty or subspecialty is not a very good idea.

 

         16   We need something more than just their academic

 

         17   proficiency.

 

 

         18             We need other -- we have other concerns, other

 

         19   areas that we look into to determine if somebody should

 

         20   continue to practice medicine in this state.

 

         21             But from a purely academic point of view, I

 

         22   don't think we have -- rather than to have good

 

         23   recertification and not so good training programs,

 

         24   recertification programs that we don't have another

 

         25   modality to use in lieu of that to determine if

 

 

 

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          1   academically they are fit to practice that specialty or

 

          2   subspecialty.

 

          3             DR. BAEPLER:  Exactly.

 

          4             DR. TITUS:  I can tell you that this is an

 

          5   issue, this recertification issue, when I took my boards

 

          6   this summer down in San Francisco.  And there were maybe

 

          7   700 people.  And when we left that test we were handed

 

          8   this document.  I think of the 700 people I think I was

 

          9   the only one that wasn't surprised at all that they have

 

         10   said like a greetings of the American Board of Family

 

         11   Practice and board certification program this is what we

 

         12   have to do next time.  It's not going to be good enough

 

         13   to go every seven years and take this test.  We are

 

         14   going to look at charts, a whole magnitude of things.

 

         15   And the boards are really changing how they are viewing

 

         16   this.

 

         17             DR. BAEPLER:  That's exactly what I found in

 

         18   talking to them, yes.

 

         19             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I think that the way that

 

         20   this is worded, and we'll ask our attorney -- but I

 

         21   think you could accept that based on the fact that the

 

         22   language that we have is any other examination that is

 

         23   approved by the board and designed to test applicants,

 

         24   if we decide as a board we can accept recertification,

 

         25   we can do that.

 

 

 

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          1             Maybe what I'm hearing --  And maybe what I'm

 

          2   hearing from you, Steve, is you would like it more

 

          3   clearly spelled out that that would be acceptable that

 

          4   we say initial certification or recertification.

 

          5             DR. MONTOYA:  That's exactly what I was

 

          6   looking for.  There was some doubt among us and among

 

          7   the public as to what we were looking for.  And all of

 

          8   these applications we have for licensure by endorsement

 

          9   also, I think a lot of these can be actually approved

 

         10   for a license administratively as they come back to the

 

         11   full boards.

 

         12             MADAM PRESIDENT:  The way I'm reading number

 

         13   two it looks like we have it in there.  It says we will

 

         14   accept it.  We will consider an applicant to have

 

         15   satisfied the requirements if within 10 years they have

 

         16   passed part three of the boards and then the other exams

 

         17   and then the examination for primary certification by a

 

         18   specialty board and received primary certification from

 

         19   that board or the special purpose exam.  So it didn't

 

         20   have recertification.

 

         21             MS. KIRCH:  It doesn't have recertification so

 

         22   if that was inserted --

 

         23             MADAM PRESIDENT:  So under E if we add

 

         24   recertification.

 

         25             DR. TITUS:  While we are on this page, I read

 

 

 

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          1   this and look at the very top of that page.  We are

 

          2   looking at the top on that page when have we been

 

          3   required to take a written examination concerning the

 

          4   statutes and regulations related to the practice of meds

 

          5   in this state?

 

          6             MR. LESSLY:  About 15 years.

 

          7             DR. TITUS:  Where do we take that test?  I

 

          8   have been licensed 23 -- 25 years and have never taken

 

          9   that test.

 

         10             MADAM PRESIDENT:  It's for new licensees,

 

         11   Lynn, so you would have done it.  When you were

 

         12   licensed, Robin, I think you had to come in in person.

 

         13             DR. TITUS:  Yes.  I had a personal interview

 

         14   here in this building.

 

         15             MADAM PRESIDENT:  When that was stopped it was

 

         16   substituted basically.  It's a written --

 

         17             DR. MONTOYA:  You have been around too long,

 

         18   Dr. Titus.

 

         19             DR. TITUS:  I know.  Scary.  When we don't

 

         20   know what the law is, how do you give a test to these

 

         21   new applicants?  What's the test?

 

         22             MR. LESSLY:  It's a written examination.  Send

 

         23   something to them in the mail with a copy of the

 

         24   statutes.  They have to answer the questions and send it

 

         25   back.

 

 

 

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          1             DR. TITUS:  It's an open book.  You send them

 

          2   the statues.  They take the test and then mail it back.

 

          3             DR. BAEPLER:  It's a learning device.

 

          4             DR. TITUS:  That's fine.  I'm fine with that.

 

          5   I was just reading going, Wow, I have never taken one of

 

          6   these.

 

          7             MADAM PRESIDENT:  What I'm hearing is

 

          8   everybody is feeling the same way that we want to add in

 

          9   addition to primary certification, recertification under

 

         10   E.

 

         11             MR. LUBRITZ:  I would like to add something,

 

         12   too.  There are some boards out there that are not

 

         13   approved by the Board of Medical Specialties.  So I

 

         14   would think that we would want to insert --

 

         15             MR. LEGARZA:  It's in there.

 

         16             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Good point, though.

 

         17             DR. TITUS:  We did deal with a license by

 

         18   endorsement last time who had taken a different board

 

         19   that we had no way of knowing what the criterion --

 

         20             DR. ANJUM:  Right.  A lady came in --

 

         21             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  And then we can

 

         22   probably approve all of these at once, Dick, can't we?

 

         23             MR. LEGARZA:  This is one regulation.

 

         24             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  So the other I'd like

 

         25   to get a feeling for whether people want to add what was

 

 

 

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          1   suggested by Mr. Mathiesen allowing credit for military

 

          2   training to be incorporated --

 

          3             DR. TITUS:  Since 2001.  Not fifty years ago.

 

          4             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Right.

 

          5             MR. LEGARZA:  That is already in there I

 

          6   think.

 

          7             DR. TITUS:  Since 2001.

 

          8             MADAM PRESIDENT:  So really when we are

 

          9   talking about adding military training --

 

         10             MR. LEGARZA:  Military and public health

 

         11   officer?

 

         12             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Right.

 

         13             MR. LEGARZA:  That's easy to do.

 

         14             DR. LUBRITZ:  Since 2001.

 

         15             MR. LEGARZA:  See, that's exactly what he has

 

         16   in his proposal in the letter.

 

         17             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I think I need a motion to

 

         18   incorporate that part of the statute which would

 

         19   incorporate the military training and the public health

 

         20   officer.

 

         21             And, secondly, the change that was proposed to

 

         22   add recertification obviously by an approved board of

 

         23   medical specialty.

 

         24             DR. BAEPLER:  So moved.

 

         25             DR. MONTOYA:  Finishing up a residency.

 

 

 

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          1             MADAM PRESIDENT:  That would have been

 

          2   incorporated because they would have taken the boards.

 

          3             MR. LUBRITZ:  Just because you finished the

 

          4   residency doesn't mean you have taken the board.

 

          5             MR. LEGARZA:  You wouldn't be board eligible.

 

          6             MADAM PRESIDENT:  No, but you have to take

 

          7   step one, two, and three during residency.  So unless

 

          8   you are in a residency that's lasted longer than 10

 

          9   years or the residency has been going on for 10 years, I

 

         10   guess you would not meet that.  Okay.

 

         11             So there was a motion.  Was that seconded?

 

         12             MS. KIRCH:  I second.

 

         13             MADAM PRESIDENT:  All in favor?

 

         14             MEMBERS OF BOARD:  Aye.

 

         15             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Opposed?  Chair votes in

 

         16   favor of the motion.

 

         17             DR. TITUS:  I'm going to go on record for

 

         18   abstaining because that public health does directly

 

         19   pertain to me.

 

         20             MADAM PRESIDENT:  So noted.

 

         21             Now I need a motion to approve the changes in

 

         22   the -- in this regulation as a whole.  Is there any

 

         23   other discussions, first of all, as far as any of the

 

         24   other items in here?  I think those were the main ones.

 

         25             Anything else you want to comment on?

 

 

 

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          1             MR. LEGARZA:  Nothing.

 

          2             MADAM PRESIDENT:  There is a motion and a

 

          3   second to approve the proposed changes in the

 

          4   regulation.  All in favor?

 

          5             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Aye.

 

          6             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Opposed?  Chair votes in

 

          7   favor of the motion.  Motion carries.

 

          8             MR. LEGARZA:  Under the regulation under the

 

          9   second section of it is this new revised continuing

 

         10   recertification of physicians every 10 years which is

 

         11   the last page under number five and then the issue for

 

         12   termination at this time is to whether or not you want

 

         13   me to -- instruct me to go back out and do workshops on

 

         14   this regulation.

 

         15             DR. BAEPLER:  I can bring you up to date on

 

         16   this.

 

         17             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  Please do.

 

         18             DR. BAEPLER:  We were now in our third year on

 

         19   deliberating on this and we have certainly evolved quite

 

         20   nicely.

 

         21             We started out, as you are aware, with the

 

         22   search for the universal exam to examine everyone for

 

         23   competency.

 

         24             Many states, by the way -- in fact, most

 

         25   states are now considering regulations.  And many of

 

 

 

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          1   them are still at that change where they are still

 

          2   trying to find the exam.

 

          3             This is an unpalatable concept to give

 

          4   everyone the same exam to establish quote competency.

 

          5             Clearly, as many of the doctors pointed out,

 

          6   examinations don't examine for competency but rather for

 

          7   knowledge.  And the two are quite distinct.

 

          8             Moreover, we had public workshops on a

 

          9   proposed set of regulations that began to focus in a

 

         10   different direction.  Namely, wherever there is an

 

         11   outside evaluation of the M.D. available during that ten

 

         12   year period, we need to accept that outside evaluation

 

         13   if that evaluation has any validity at all because this

 

         14   board is not staffed nor do we have the money to give

 

         15   each person a detailed going over, talk to their

 

         16   patients, talk to their colleagues --

 

         17             The Canadian system where it cost them seven,

 

         18   eight, nine thousand dollars per doctor and really is

 

         19   not working that well.

 

         20             Anecdotally, at least, the information I get

 

         21   on this is that our system in the United States of

 

         22   acting on those complaints and taking disciplinary

 

         23   action and so on is just as effective as the Canadian

 

         24   system and several of the provinces are going to drop it

 

         25   or very significantly reduce it.

 

 

 

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          1             So we have a system that is working.

 

          2             The various states working on these proposals,

 

          3   however, want to be proactive because legislators are

 

          4   concerned that there should be some type of validation

 

          5   on a periodic basis.

 

          6             And the problems with legislators acting and

 

          7   letting us react is the kind of problem we just faced

 

          8   here.  If we don't offer up something, in all

 

          9   probability the legislators will.  And they don't have

 

         10   the time to work on it.

 

         11             Mind you, the legislature is not going to put

 

         12   in three years.  And we haven't worked in a vacuum.  We

 

         13   have been in contact with other states that are working

 

         14   on these.

 

         15             At the last three federation meetings this has

 

         16   been a general point of discussion and concern.  And we

 

         17   have all gotten ideas, those of us who have attended

 

         18   those sessions, as to what is going on in the country.

 

         19             We got voluminous response from the medical

 

         20   profession for our last set of suggested regulations.

 

         21   Not only were the workshops that we held very well

 

         22   attended but the transcripts of those workshops are

 

         23   voluminous.  And we had many M.D.s write us letters with

 

         24   suggestions.  And many of the remarks at the workshops

 

         25   and many of the comments in the letters were extremely

 

 

 

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          1   good.

 

          2             What we did is categorize them to see if we

 

          3   could alleviate blocks of physicians who had problems or

 

          4   objections to that prior set of proposed regs.

 

          5             And I think we have been able to hopefully

 

          6   eliminate many of the objections by the changes that we

 

          7   are making.  For example, we have totally eliminated the

 

          8   word competency, and came to the same conclusion that

 

          9   the group that Robin was reporting on would use the word

 

         10   proficiency.

 

         11             Actually, I can't find the right word.

 

         12   Quality assurance might be better than even proficiency,

 

         13   but it's certainly not competency.  We recognize that.

 

         14   And somehow I like the idea of quality assurance.

 

         15             In the introductory paragraph, even though we

 

         16   called it a ten year review, the word biennial appeared

 

         17   in that several times.  Many, many doctors objected that

 

         18   they didn't want to do this every two years.  They

 

         19   simply hadn't read the material.

 

         20             This time we spell it out.  2007, 2017, 2027,

 

         21   you see.  So it's clear.  And we slipped the dates from

 

         22   2005 to 2007 for this to begin.

 

         23             In the proposed recommendations that you have

 

         24   here there is a typo that has to be corrected under 1a

 

         25   where it says hold current certification and it should

 

 

 

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          1   read "and required to recertify by a member board."

 

          2             Not all the people are totally grandfathered

 

          3   in.  These people -- in other words, the physicians that

 

          4   are certified and have to recertify, they are home free.

 

          5             Secondly in B, we used to differentiate

 

          6   between physicians who were grandfathered and not board

 

          7   certified by saying the ones that were not certified had

 

          8   to have hospital privileges at two hospitals.  Many

 

          9   people are not in a position where that is possible,

 

         10   particularly in the rural communities.

 

         11             Yet, we changed that to one because it does

 

         12   have a two-year review.  And as in a couple other

 

         13   instances here, the two-year review of hospital

 

         14   privileges can be quite vigorous.  I don't care whether

 

         15   you are working in a hospital with privileges or if you

 

         16   are working in a pathology laboratory that is accredited

 

         17   or a radiology facility that is accredited.  You have to

 

         18   be proficient.  You can't be a liability because it's

 

         19   the hospital, it's the laboratories, is the facilities

 

         20   that are named in lawsuits as well as the physicians.

 

         21   They go after deep pockets.

 

         22             You have a self-screening process with

 

         23   hospital privileges and with affiliation with these

 

         24   other types of operations that effectively meets our

 

         25   intended purpose of seeing that the individual is

 

 

 

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          1   proficient.

 

          2             And this reduction to one such affiliation

 

          3   should, I think, take care of a large number of

 

          4   objections.

 

          5             There were objections by several groups of

 

          6   physicians who typically don't have hospital

 

          7   affiliations.  The radiologists, the psychologists, or

 

          8   psychiatrists rather, and the pathologists.  Using their

 

          9   own suggestions the pathologists have an accrediting

 

         10   organization which accredits the pathology laboratory.

 

         11             If you look that up on the website, it's quite

 

         12   vigorous.  And the pathologists, by the way, recommended

 

         13   this both verbally and in writing.  And upon checking,

 

         14   it's just like hospital privileges because you can't

 

         15   accredit the group without looking at the quality of the

 

         16   individuals.  And it's a rigorous Q-A review of

 

         17   individuals which collectively constitutes the group.

 

         18             The radiologists -- and there should be a

 

         19   change here from laboratory.  They don't call them

 

         20   laboratories.  It should be a radiation facility rather

 

         21   than a laboratory.  A little less rigorous, but it meets

 

         22   the same intent.

 

         23             And lower on down the psychiatrists.  They

 

         24   recommended that they have a self-assessment and review

 

         25   examination offered by the American Psychiatrist

 

 

 

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          1   Association which has some rigor to it.  And that would

 

          2   be a decent way for the ones who do not have to

 

          3   recertify to meet their requirements.

 

          4             We tried to diminish the concept of taking a

 

          5   test, and no one would have to take a test under the

 

          6   various options that are provided here.

 

          7             We certainly allow them to.  We run into the

 

          8   same problem that we just discussed with respect to the

 

          9   prior one.

 

         10             Certainly under 2D, we'll let them take the

 

         11   specs.  We will let them take a USMLE.  We will let them

 

         12   take a specs test that relates to a specialty.  The one

 

         13   who handles the psychiatrist, any other formal exam, and

 

         14   there is a number of them out there.  And they can

 

         15   choose them at their options.  For example, I didn't

 

         16   know about the program for the psychiatrists until it

 

         17   was pointed out to me.

 

         18             But I would rather have them take that than

 

         19   specs, you know.

 

         20             But no one has to take an exam because we will

 

         21   accept a pure review.

 

         22             Now, there was a lot of questions about what

 

         23   was a pure review.  Is it going to cost me eight, 10,000

 

         24   dollars?  No.  It's a pure review by a couple other

 

         25   doctors in your same area of specialization.  I would

 

 

 

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          1   suggest it take couple, three hours.  They would want to

 

          2   look at some of your recent records to see how you

 

          3   handle and keep records of patients and so on.

 

          4             I know if I spend a couple hours with a person

 

          5   in my specialty, I can tell whether they are proficient

 

          6   or not.  I have no problem with that at all.  And I

 

          7   assume M.D.s can do the same thing.

 

          8             What we really tried to do here without going

 

          9   into all the details is try to remove many of the

 

         10   objections that were raised by the medical profession at

 

         11   the workshops and in written communication with us.

 

         12             Some will still remain.  But the

 

         13   recommendation to you today is certainly not to accept

 

         14   these, but to simply authorize legal counsel to hold

 

         15   additional workshops now in Reno and in Las Vegas,

 

         16   invite written comment.  And I'm hoping we will have

 

         17   taken care of the majority of the problems.

 

         18             After those workshops have been held and we

 

         19   have had a chance to review the written comments, we

 

         20   might tweak this even further.  But we are -- we can't

 

         21   act on it today or until we have completed all of these

 

         22   other processes.

 

         23             I think the evolution of this thing has been

 

         24   dramatic over three years and starting off with the

 

         25   simplest concept, Give everybody an exam.  Well, we

 

 

 

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          1   couldn't find the right exam, and there is no right

 

          2   exam.  So hopefully this will be more acceptable.

 

          3             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  So are there other

 

          4   comments by board members about the revised

 

          5   recommendations that would again, just to clarify, be

 

          6   going to workshops?

 

          7             DR. LUBRITZ:  Have we included in here -- I'm

 

          8   not sure it's in here.  Have we included the possibility

 

          9   since more boards are going towards continuing

 

         10   proficiency that if they are a particular board that's a

 

         11   recognized board by the board of medical specialists

 

         12   that those may also be incorporated in here?

 

         13             MS. KIRCH:  It's in here.

 

         14             DR. MONTOYA:  As long as we maintain your

 

         15   certification, you are considered competent.

 

         16             DR. TITUS:  I would like to make a few

 

         17   comments that as you guys probably know I'm on the

 

         18   federation national subcommittee on maintenance of

 

         19   licensure.  They are not talking about necessarily

 

         20   competency.  It's a special committee on a maintenance

 

         21   of licensure.

 

         22             We have met once in September.  And we are

 

         23   meeting again a week from today.

 

         24             When we first started this three years ago, it

 

         25   was in its infancy and we were one the few states that

 

 

 

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          1   was looking at that.  And we were slammed by our doctors

 

          2   in our state because they wanted to know why does Nevada

 

          3   have to be -- why do we have to be first?  Why don't we

 

          4   get more information.  Let other states show we need to

 

          5   do that, et cetera.  Just to assure the other physicians

 

          6   in the state it is an international issue, not a

 

          7   national issue, not just a state issue on the whole idea

 

          8   of maintenance of licensure and proficiency.

 

          9             So everybody is looking at it.  I would like

 

         10   to say that we are leaps and bounds ahead of some of the

 

         11   other states.  But also a few states have actually, I

 

         12   think, presented some ideas that I would like to put

 

         13   forth here because I think in all due respect, Don, in

 

         14   your attempt to include everybody, it's become rather

 

         15   cumbersome and to then use say the radiologist can do

 

         16   this and the pathologist can do that and then the

 

         17   psychologist can do this, it does become cumbersome.

 

         18             And I want to submit New Jersey, believe it or

 

         19   not, New Jersey has come up with a very short statement

 

         20   with this that is pending in their legislature.  Just

 

         21   briefly.  Humor me for a second.

 

         22             They are talking about an unaffiliated

 

         23   physician would be subject to a biennial quality

 

         24   assurance review.  Quality assurance review is all as a

 

         25   condition to relicensure.

 

 

 

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          1             The bill defines unaffiliated physicians as

 

          2   those who maintain an office and meet all the following:

 

          3   They don't have privileges at a health care facility.

 

          4   They don't say J-H or whatever, not participating in an

 

          5   HMO or manage care facility.  And those of you who are

 

          6   -- you have to go through a reup every two years to be

 

          7   on a HMO.

 

          8             Is not participating in a federal Medicare

 

          9   program.  Is not accredited by certain recognized

 

         10   accrediting bodies such as boards, et cetera.  And that

 

         11   physicians would be subject to pay the charge for the

 

         12   cost of that inspection.

 

         13             DR. BAEPLER:  Pure review.

 

         14             DR. TITUS:  I think we do need to rework this

 

         15   concept.

 

         16             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I think what we need to

 

         17   decide today and move this along a little bit about what

 

         18   we have here is a draft that I think the committee has

 

         19   worked on.  And we need to decide whether we want to

 

         20   send this out in this format to workshops.

 

         21             DR. BAEPLER:  I think one advantage in

 

         22   spelling it out -- and, by the way, point two there are

 

         23   some M.D.s out there with some unusual and unique

 

         24   circumstances and we are willing to make exceptions to

 

         25   accommodate them so that they just don't fit the mold.

 

 

 

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          1             I think one way to look at this, and we can

 

          2   certainly streamline the language and keep the intent,

 

          3   if I was an M.D. and knew I had to do this every 10

 

          4   years, I would look at this and see how it affects me.

 

          5             I'm hoping that the majority of the M.D.s will

 

          6   find a place in here that fits them ideally at virtually

 

          7   no convenience to them because we are not asking them to

 

          8   do any more than they are already doing.

 

          9             And I think it spells it out because we are

 

         10   trying to meet the stated objections of specific groups

 

         11   that offered a good alternative and now we are going to

 

         12   include them.

 

         13             I think it can be streamlined as we get

 

         14   experience.

 

         15             DR. ANWAR:  I recommend we move forward with

 

         16   workshops taking this language and see what the

 

         17   physician comments are and bring it back and the

 

         18   language that has been pointed out can be reworked as

 

         19   long as the intent is there.

 

         20             DR. MONTOYA:  I second that.

 

         21             MADAM PRESIDENT:  There is a motion and a

 

         22   second to then take these requirements as proposed to

 

         23   workshops.  All in favor?

 

         24             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Aye.

 

         25             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Opposed?  Chair votes in

 

 

 

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          1   favor of the motion.  Motion carries.

 

          2             MR. LEGARZA:  I want to make one little

 

          3   comment.  I intend with your permission and Larry has

 

          4   instructed me to do so.  We sent the other proposed

 

          5   regulations by mail to every licensed physician.  We

 

          6   intend to do that again.  Is that okay?  It will cost us

 

          7   about five thousand bucks.

 

          8             MADAM PRESIDENT:  That will be really good.

 

          9             DR. BAEPLER:  But the workshops will probably

 

         10   be after the holidays?

 

         11             MR. LEGARZA:  Yes.  We will set the workshops,

 

         12   and I'll meet with you and anybody else on the committee

 

         13   to get the times.  And we will have the workshops set in

 

         14   Reno and in Las Vegas.

 

         15             DR. BAEPLER:  Right.  Good.

 

         16             MR. LEGARZA:  Okay.

 

         17             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  Moving on to agenda

 

         18   item number six.  There is a discussion of our diversion

 

         19   program, and we have with us our former president

 

         20   Mr. Rosenkranz.  Hi.  Come and join us please.

 

         21             On your agenda it does say Dr. Coughlin was

 

         22   going to join us, and Dr. Rosenkranz has agreed to make

 

         23   his presentation and tell us a little bit about what's

 

         24   going on with diversion.

 

         25             DR. ROSENKRANZ:  Good afternoon.  I'm Arty

 

 

 

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          1   Rosenkranz.  It's nice to be here.

 

          2             I think I will defer to Carol and let her make

 

          3   the regular report about diversion, and I will give mine

 

          4   and answer any questions.

 

          5             MS. BOWERS:  Hi.  I'm Carol Bowers.  Over the

 

          6   course of 2003 we have had 18 individuals evaluated or

 

          7   treated.

 

          8             We investigated over who were involved a total

 

          9   of 73 individuals.

 

         10             We had two respiratory therapists die this

 

         11   year.

 

         12             We had 22 participants complete their

 

         13   contracts with the state.

 

         14             We have given presentations to the medical

 

         15   students of Reno, at Valley Hospital, Family Practice

 

         16   Residence, Medical Executive Committee at Valley

 

         17   Hospital at Sunrise Hospital and at Washoe Medical

 

         18   Center.

 

         19             I attended the federation health programs in

 

         20   April in Illinois and the western region meeting in

 

         21   Oregon in September.

 

         22             I continued to attend Reno on a monthly basis,

 

         23   and I tried to spend some time with the medical board at

 

         24   each visit.

 

         25             November 22nd I attended the annual meeting at

 

 

 

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          1   the osteopathic board and discussed the renewal of our

 

          2   contract and give my annual report.  They are very

 

          3   pleased with my work and unanimously voted to contract

 

          4   with us for another year.  So I was pleased with that.

 

          5             We did not receive any money from the hospital

 

          6   association this year.  So I believe that needs to be

 

          7   number one on the list of goals for 2004.

 

          8             The foundation has taken over as the wellness

 

          9   committee for many of the hospitals in Las Vegas and in

 

         10   Reno.  I think soliciting them for funding is a good

 

         11   idea and certainly should be done.

 

         12             We had a significant problem with the

 

         13   presentation that Dr. Rubin gave at Sunrise Hospital.

 

         14   And hopefully that has been corrected.  And Mr. Stype

 

         15   may continue to support our efforts.

 

         16             I have a brochure that is ready to go.  It is

 

         17   all set up and it looks really good.  I need some input

 

         18   from the board as to the contents of that brochure.  I

 

         19   would hope to discuss that at the last meeting but there

 

         20   were more pressing topics at that meeting.

 

         21             Doctor Rutherford has resigned as medical

 

         22   director and it will be effective December 1st.

 

         23             The board seems to be able and willing to take

 

         24   a more active role in the future.  And as I have been

 

         25   over there, I don't have it with me, I have come up with

 

 

 

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          1   things that they requested Dr. Coughlin would like

 

          2   before I say that I'm -- obviously most of you by now

 

          3   know I have resigned effective December 31st.  And I

 

          4   have given some suggestions as to possible replacements

 

          5   for me that I hope will be appropriate.

 

          6             Dr. Coughlin would like to see a physician

 

          7   replace me along with secretary support because he does

 

          8   not feel I have been capable in my position as an

 

          9   effective director.

 

         10             I have 64 participants.  It varies between 62

 

         11   and 66 and that depends on who comes in and who leaves

 

         12   at the time but it general stays in the 60s.  They have

 

         13   21 in the north and 23 in the south.  The south has

 

         14   really blossomed.  I don't know whether that's a good

 

         15   thing or a bad thing.  I think it's a good thing because

 

         16   we are getting lots of calls and a lot of people seem to

 

         17   see that we are helping physicians.

 

         18             And I think more work needs to be done in

 

         19   Reno, and I think that will happen over the next year.

 

         20             Our finances have certainly improved in four

 

         21   years.  When I took over this position at the first

 

         22   board meeting I wondered what I was doing here.  When I

 

         23   took over the checkbook, I think we had a thousand

 

         24   dollars in the checkbook.  We now have $57,821 in the

 

         25   checkbook.  And all of your bills are paid on time.

 

 

 

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          1             We have all the licenses we need.  All the

 

          2   taxes are paid.  Everything is paid at the time and has

 

          3   been.

 

          4             So I leave here or I will leave here feeling

 

          5   like I have accomplished what I told the board I hoped

 

          6   to accomplish.  I feel good about what I have done here.

 

          7             I want to thank specifically this board

 

          8   because I have received nothing but support and good

 

          9   feelings from this board.  And I appreciate that, and I

 

         10   leave with a saddened heart over leaving this.

 

         11             But in the long run, I think it many be a good

 

         12   move for me, and I certainly hope that the board will

 

         13   continue to support the foundation as you have supported

 

         14   me.

 

         15             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Carol, I know that I speak

 

         16   for the board when we say that we appreciate you and the

 

         17   work that you have done.  And you are absolutely correct

 

         18   and that when you came on board it was a mess.  And

 

         19   there was no money.  And you have taken that and created

 

         20   a wonderful program.  And it is in large part due to you

 

         21   that it is as successful as it has been.  And we

 

         22   recognize that and we appreciate you.  And I know that

 

         23   all of us are saddened that you are leaving.

 

         24             And, you know, we wish you only the best, but

 

         25   I think it is definitely our loss and the foundation's

 

 

 

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          1   loss that you are leaving us.  What I would like to do

 

          2   is Arnie let you give your report.  And if anyone would

 

          3   like to go into closed session for just a moment to

 

          4   address some personnel issues with Carol, we can do that

 

          5   as well.

 

          6             DR. ROSENKRANZ:  I'm sure Carol feels the same

 

          7   way I did when I left this board a couple years ago.

 

          8   She feels how is this foundation going to continue

 

          9   without her.  I felt the same way when I left this

 

         10   board.  And I think we all feel greatly of ourselves and

 

         11   our work.  And she has done wonderful work, and I am

 

         12   happy to be associated with the foundation for the last

 

         13   couple of years.

 

         14             Things are going to happen.  We have appointed

 

         15   a new medical director as Carol said, Brad Thompson.  I

 

         16   don't know Brad very well, but Carol gives him high

 

         17   marks.  She thinks a lot of him, and I think the other

 

         18   foundation and board members feel the same way that he

 

         19   will be a good medical director.

 

         20             We only found out -- the foundation found out

 

         21   through Carol's letter that she was resigning just a

 

         22   couple days ago so she has put out the word that we are

 

         23   looking for a new director.  And through her

 

         24   association, I believe, and we will look in Las Vegas

 

         25   and nationally.  It may take us a little while to find

 

 

 

 

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          1   somebody, but we will find somebody.

 

          2             A little history about the board.  I think

 

          3   over the last few years Carol has done a very good job

 

          4   of running the foundation.  And the board was sort of a

 

          5   figurehead board and didn't do very much work.  But over

 

          6   the last six months I think that the board felt some

 

          7   conflict and some problems with Dr. Rueckl and maybe

 

          8   with Carol and the team and decided that we really need

 

          9   to dig in and do work.

 

         10             So we have -- we are committed.  I think the

 

         11   whole board is committed to do that.  We were meeting

 

         12   twice a year.  We are going to meet four times a year,

 

         13   and I think that is a big improvement.  We didn't have

 

         14   job descriptions.  Carol didn't even have a contract,

 

         15   okay.  We didn't have a job description for the

 

         16   executive director of northern Nevada.  We didn't have

 

         17   contracts for those people.

 

         18             A lot of things we assumed happened as a board

 

         19   and didn't happen.  But they are going to happen.

 

         20             The board members that were present on

 

         21   November 16th are willing to do the work.

 

         22             And I'm sure that the people that we have

 

         23   committed -- the chairman of the committee for job

 

         24   descriptions, we have Dr. Thompson as the medical doctor

 

         25   and December 31st and Dr. Rueckl will be finished.

 

 

 

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          1             We are meeting more often.  We are going now

 

          2   to evaluate the job performances of our employees which

 

          3   we haven't done or didn't do for a number of years.

 

          4             We have some new officers.  And Carol talked

 

          5   about that, and we have room for a new board member.  We

 

          6   are looking for a new board member.  We are going to get

 

          7   monthly financial reports which we didn't do a very good

 

          8   job of keeping track of before.

 

          9             I think of my history on this foundation board

 

         10   we let it run very loosely.  We have a problem.  This

 

         11   was decided before Carol was leaving.  We knew we had a

 

         12   problem, but I think the foundation feels competent that

 

         13   we can handle the situation.

 

         14             Carol is going to help us find somebody.  She

 

         15   will be around until the end of the month, and we will

 

         16   still do the work that the foundation does.  That's the

 

         17   end of my report.

 

         18             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Thanks, Arnie.

 

         19             DR. MONTOYA:  May we go into closed session?

 

         20             MADAM PRESIDENT:  We'll go into closed

 

         21   session.

 

         22            (Off the record -- closed session.)

 

         23             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Is there a motion?

 

         24             DR. TITUS:  I move we give our president,

 

         25   Cheryl Hug, the authority in regards to the current

 

 

 

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          1   situation with our diversion program.  I move that we

 

          2   give Dr. Cheryl Hug permission or authority to notify

 

          3   them in January if actions that they have taken are not

 

          4   to the satisfaction of this board.

 

          5             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Second.

 

          6             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  There is a motion and

 

          7   a second to give me the authority to send a letter to

 

          8   terminate our relationship with the diversion program if

 

          9   progress has not been made for replacement of Carol

 

         10   Bowers.  All in favor?

 

         11             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Aye.

 

         12             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Chair votes in favor of the

 

         13   motion.  Motion carries.  Thank you both for your

 

         14   presentations.

 

         15             I know that we are really running late.  Can

 

         16   we just do agenda item number seven, and then we can

 

         17   maybe take a break.

 

         18             I think this is a relatively short one.  This

 

         19   is agenda number seven, consideration of submission of

 

         20   request to participate in the federation's poster

 

         21   session at the next meeting.

 

         22             Larry, you want to talk about that?

 

         23             MR. LESSLY:  I wasn't at the last meeting.

 

         24   Apparently the federation utilized a poster session.

 

         25   There is an invitation out for boards to request to

 

 

 

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          1   participate.

 

          2             MR. HUSE:  We cannot hear you in Las Vegas.

 

          3             MR. LESSLY:  There is a request out for

 

          4   submission to participate in the poster session along

 

          5   with abstract -- as well as abstract.  What we would be

 

          6   doing in that poster session is supposed to be inviting

 

          7   of ideas and things that are occurring with your board.

 

          8             I have discussed it with Cheryl.  I have

 

          9   discussed it with Don.  It would seem to me if we want

 

         10   to participate in something like that, perhaps our

 

         11   continuance of public announcements, for lack of a

 

         12   better descriptive term, if, in fact, this board adopts

 

         13   a regulation on post licensure competency proficiency, a

 

         14   background on that regulation and distribution of that

 

         15   regulation at that booth might be appropriate.

 

         16             Those were things I thought of, I guess.  The

 

         17   first thing you would need to do if you are interested

 

         18   in doing it is what would you like to do?

 

         19             DR. TITUS:  I was back at the last board

 

         20   meeting.  I was disappointed at our federation meeting.

 

         21   I was disappointed that our board didn't participate in

 

         22   a poster session.  I thought the ones that were

 

         23   represented were good.

 

         24             I think our board is very progressive, and we

 

         25   have things to share with other states.  And we were

 

 

 

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          1   asked, those us that were there, where is your poster?

 

          2   And I came back saying, Why didn't we do a poster

 

          3   session?  And I would be in favor of something like that

 

          4   and be happy to help to participate.

 

          5             DR. BAEPLER:  Not very expensive to create.

 

          6   And looking at the agenda for the spring meeting, there

 

          7   is a very limited amount of time.  And we have to man

 

          8   it.  Can it be an unmanned poster for the entire

 

          9   session?

 

         10             DR. TITUS:  Fifty minutes maybe.

 

         11             DR. BAEPLER:  Yeah.

 

         12             DR. TITUS:  I don't know how many of us are

 

         13   planning to go to the meeting, but I would be

 

         14   encouraging this board in looking into doing that.

 

         15             DR. BAEPLER:  Yeah.

 

         16             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  There is a motion to

 

         17   that affect?

 

         18             DR. MONTOYA:  Second.

 

         19             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  There is a motion and

 

         20   a second.  All in favor?

 

         21             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Aye.  Opposed?  Chair

 

         22   votes in favor of the motion.  Motion carries.

 

         23             MR. LESSLY:  What do you want us to look into?

 

         24             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I think both of those things

 

         25   would be appropriate depending on what happens in the

 

 

 

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          1   next meeting.

 

          2             MR. LESSLY:  I think I need some assistance

 

          3   from the board members -- probably have to be Don -- to

 

          4   talk about a poster.

 

          5             DR. BAEPLER:  I can begin to put something

 

          6   together.  And depending on where we are, it will be

 

          7   either regs or proposed or under consideration.

 

          8             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Right.

 

          9             DR. BAEPLER:  Hopefully regs.

 

         10             DR. TITUS:  I will be happy to help you with

 

         11   it when we are there.

 

         12             MR. LESSLY:  Both of them at the same booth

 

         13   and we'll work on that.

 

         14             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  And you guys want to

 

         15   wait?  Is that going to take a little bit to talk about?

 

         16             MS. LYONS:  I would like you to just read --

 

         17   we received an e-mail from Assemblyman Maybe.  And I

 

         18   just want to quickly read what this says particularly

 

         19   the circled paragraph.

 

         20             DR. BAEPLER:  Who is this from?

 

         21             MS. LYONS:  Assemblyman Maybe.

 

         22             The board now decides in open session what

 

         23   goes on the website.  You see that Assemblyman Maybe is

 

         24   interested in how that all works.  So at this point it

 

         25   is -- the legislature deemed that the board make a

 

 

 

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          1   decision in open session about what goes on there.

 

          2             Well, right now all the information on our

 

          3   licensees are available over-the-phone and on our

 

          4   website.  The only difference is the education about the

 

          5   licensee is not on the website yet.  That's something we

 

          6   discussed in the past.  One of the main reasons that the

 

          7   education --

 

          8             MR. HUSE:  Excuse me.  We are having

 

          9   difficulty hearing in Las Vegas.

 

         10             MS. LYONS:  One of the reasons the education

 

         11   is not in the website right now is due to the conversion

 

         12   over the last three years.  The data has -- every time

 

         13   you do a data conversion you have to clean up the data.

 

         14   And in doing about three to four conversions you can

 

         15   imagine some data on the education has become jumbled.

 

         16   And it's -- I don't feel that it is absolutely accurate

 

         17   what we have in our data base right now.

 

         18             And that's why we have been putting off

 

         19   putting the education on the website because we were

 

         20   going to get that cleaned up.  And that's a big project.

 

         21   And we really don't have anyone on staff to do it.

 

         22             So what I would propose if you want to

 

         23   consider putting the education on the website is, first

 

         24   of all, there is two costs involved.  One, to hire a

 

         25   full-time person who has a lot of experience in data

 

 

 

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          1   input because this person has to take each hard copy

 

          2   file, pull it, put the education on it.

 

          3             I got a quote from Kelly Services.  A person

 

          4   for a six-month period of time would cost $14,500.  And

 

          5   I think in a six-month period of time they could take

 

          6   and clean up all of the active status licensees that we

 

          7   have.

 

          8             On top of that I received a quote from System

 

          9   Imaging to enhance our website to allow the education to

 

         10   be put on there and that would be $10,580.  So we are

 

         11   talking about $25,000 to get the education on there.

 

         12             Besides the education, some other information

 

         13   you can consider to go on the website would be

 

         14   disciplinary actions taken by other states against our

 

         15   licensees, any criminal convictions, malpractices that

 

         16   have occurred prior to the issuance of a Nevada license,

 

         17   things like that.

 

         18             DR. MONTOYA:  How about things like awards,

 

         19   monetary things?  How about putting those things in

 

         20   there concerning the physician?

 

         21             MS. LYONS:  That would have to come under what

 

         22   Assemblyman Maybe suggests is can a physician make

 

         23   remarks.  So what we would have to do is send out

 

         24   questionnaires to everyone and tell us what awards you

 

         25   have one or --

 

 

 

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          1             DR. TITUS:  I would -- I have a wall full of

 

          2   awards.  I mean, how would you know that they are even

 

          3   legitimate?  I just would be, you know, a reward from

 

          4   the physicians state of Nevada from medical.  I mean,

 

          5   that doesn't necessarily need to be on there.  The boy

 

          6   scouts could give us --

 

          7             DR. MONTOYA:  I would say give us the top

 

          8   three awards.

 

          9             DR. TITUS:  I don't know.

 

         10             MS. LYONS:  You could do this thing where the

 

         11   licensee could actually submit things that they would

 

         12   like you to put on for them on there by their name.

 

         13             DR. TITUS:  I'm concerned that we are not

 

         14   addressing what the assemblyman is concerned about.  And

 

         15   I'm concerned about this.  If there is some inaccurate

 

         16   information about a physician on this website, why

 

         17   hasn't he been able to get it changed?  That's what I'm

 

         18   more concerned about than any award.

 

         19             MR. LESSLY:  It's all been taken care of.

 

         20             DR. TITUS:  He has --

 

         21             MR. LESSLY:  It's all been taken care of.

 

         22             DR. ANWAR:  So why do we need to take any

 

         23   additional information?  What is the value of that since

 

         24   we have looked into all that information to approve

 

         25   somebody to practice in this state?  What is the value

 

 

 

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          1   of the negative information on somebody's CV?

 

          2             DR. BAEPLER:  We already approved the guy

 

          3   knowing all of that.

 

          4             DR. ANJUM:  That is a complete information.

 

          5             MS. LYONS:  Keep it as a Nevada site.

 

          6             DR. ANJUM:  It is negative information.

 

          7             DR. ANWAR:  That is somewhere --

 

          8             MR. LESSLY:  If we tell you what disciplinary

 

          9   actions have been taken in Nevada, we tell you about

 

         10   malpractice against the physician in Nevada.  We don't

 

         11   tell you about malpractice that occurred in some other

 

         12   state before you came here.

 

         13             DR. BAEPLER:  What about settlements?

 

         14             MR. LESSLY:  Not in another state.

 

         15             DR. BAEPLER:  Settlements are so

 

 

         16   misunderstood.

 

         17             MR. LESSLY:  We don't tell you about their

 

         18   education on the website, but we do tell you about their

 

         19   education if you call in by telephone and ask us.

 

         20             DR. TITUS:  Is that available?  Do you say

 

         21   that on the website if you want more information about

 

         22   education you can call us?

 

         23             DR. BAEPLER:  There is a phone number.

 

         24             MS. LYONS:  We do say if you would like more

 

         25   information, you can call the office.  We don't

 

 

 

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          1   particularly say about information.

 

          2             DR. TITUS:  I think in was generated because

 

          3   this physician couldn't get his information changed.  It

 

          4   was enacted, and you are saying it was taken care of?

 

          5             DR. BAEPLER:  It probably happened when we

 

          6   were converting too.

 

          7             DR. TITUS:  It may not.

 

          8             MR. LESSLY:  We have taken care of this.

 

          9             MR. CLARK:  I talked to him personally.

 

         10             MS. LYONS:  The reason I brought this up,

 

         11   though, is the education is something that needs to go

 

         12   on the website.

 

         13             Other sites offer it.  It's just a piece of

 

         14   information that really needs to go on there.  And what

 

         15   I'm telling you is that I feel we need to -- prior to

 

         16   getting it on there we need to have it cleaned up so we

 

         17   feel confident.  So we don't receive e-mails such as

 

         18   this one saying this information is inaccurate.

 

         19             I would prefer taking a six month time frame,

 

         20   hiring somebody, get it cleaned up to the point -- you

 

         21   are never going to feel it's 100 percent confident.

 

         22   Nobody is perfect -- and then put it on the website.

 

         23             And I think at that point I think these other

 

         24   suggestions I made were something to think about.  But I

 

         25   think we are there, I think, when we compare our website

 

 

 

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          1   to other state medical board websites.

 

          2             DR. TITUS:  When we reapply every other year,

 

          3   are we not obligated to keep our educational information

 

          4   -- is that not all --  Do we check that?  Is that what

 

          5   we have on you?

 

          6             MS. LYONS:  We don't ask for the educational

 

          7   information on the registration forms.  We used to do

 

          8   that.  And we did a little survey and found that what

 

          9   the physician filled out on his registration was not

 

         10   always correct.  They sort of relied on their memory,

 

         11   and you are not going to get the accurate dates and all

 

         12   that stuff.

 

         13             DR. BAEPLER:  Can you tell how many hits you

 

         14   get a day or month or anything?

 

         15             MS. LYONS:  I don't keep track of that.

 

         16   That's something you can on a website.  I'm currently

 

         17   working on the website.

 

         18             MADAM PRESIDENT:  That would be good to know.

 

         19             DR. BAEPLER:  I don't have -- I would like to

 

         20   know if it's heavily used.

 

         21             DR. TITUS:  That would be something to

 

         22   address, because the one we do now is tell them to call

 

         23   in the future to look at, you know -- looking at the

 

         24   website.

 

         25             MS. LYONS:  Didn't our website come up?

 

 

 

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          1             DR. MONTOYA:  It did come up when I did the

 

          2   Spanish language, though, I have seen it someplace.

 

          3             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I guess the question to

 

          4   address today is do we want to add the educational

 

          5   background on the website?

 

          6             MS. KIRCH:  Yes, it is.

 

          7             MADAM PRESIDENT:  There is a motion to do so.

 

          8   I so move.

 

          9             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Second.

 

         10             MADAM PRESIDENT:  There is a motion to add the

 

         11   educational background.  All in favor?

 

         12             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Aye.

 

         13             MADAM PRESIDENT:  All oppose?  Chair votes in

 

         14   favor of the motion.  Motion carries.

 

         15             I think by doing so, Maureen, I think we have

 

         16   authorized you to go ahead and do what you need to do to

 

         17   get somebody place.

 

         18             MS. LYONS:  I will get started on that right

 

         19   away.

 

         20             DR. TITUS:  We will not open it to where they

 

         21   can make personal comments there.

 

         22             DR. MONTOYA:  I think that's next.

 

         23             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I think that opens you up to

 

         24   all kinds of other questions.  Then it is not a -- it's

 

         25   a site that is not a board site.  It's a physicians'

 

 

 

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          1   site where they can put what they want on it.  And I

 

          2   think having comments on their information isn't really

 

 

          3   appropriate.  There is a lot of other -- many places

 

          4   they can do that.  They can put it in other places.

 

          5   They can put it in their office.  I don't think it

 

          6   should be on the website.

 

          7             MS. KIRCH:  What can they do the national data

 

          8   bank?

 

          9             MS. LYONS:  They can respond to an action that

 

         10   is recorded on them.  They can fill out a form and

 

         11   respond to that action that was taken against them.

 

         12             MS. KIRCH:  Does it go on the website?

 

         13             MS. LYONS:  The response?

 

         14             MR. KIRCH:  Oh, yeah.  The whole national data

 

         15   bank does.

 

         16             MS. LYONS:  I do have another part to my

 

         17   agenda item.

 

         18             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.

 

         19             MS. LYONS:  If I can keep my voice.  I'm in

 

         20   the process of trying to do a major overhaul on the

 

         21   site, and mostly it's due to the status that the

 

         22   legislature that is put in place scattered around in

 

         23   different areas about what needs to go on an agency's

 

         24   website.  We are going to have a frequently asked

 

         25   questions page.

 

 

 

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          1             We are also going to have a listing of any

 

          2   doctor that has had a disciplinary action against them.

 

          3   There will be a list in alphabetical order and from that

 

          4   list you can see who they all are and you can look them

 

          5   up and read what that disciplinary action is.  We will

 

          6   have a link to the inspector general's office, a link to

 

          7   the D.O. website.  That was at their request.

 

          8             One suggestion that the federation made in

 

          9   their audit was that right now what our staff does is

 

         10   whenever a disciplinary action is adjudicated, the

 

         11   investigative staff goes in and types a summary of what

 

         12   occurred.  That's put into the comments which appears on

 

         13   the website.

 

         14             The federation recommended in their audit that

 

         15   what we do is rather than to do that is to actually take

 

         16   the actual documents and turn it into a, you know, file

 

         17   on the website so that it could be electronically

 

         18   downloaded by anyone what would want it at no charge.

 

         19             People can write in and request and pay 60

 

         20   cents a page for copies.  The federation felt that by

 

         21   allowing -- rather than summarizing it, which is whoever

 

         22   the investigator is that is doing the summaries

 

         23   interpretation of it, take that away and just let the

 

         24   person who wants the whole document take it and then

 

         25   they can read it for what they think it needs which I

 

 

 

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          1   thought was a good idea too because it leads to less

 

          2   liability on ours and of interpreting documentation.

 

          3   And that's something we could do.  That's about it.

 

          4             I'm also working on getting -- another thing I

 

          5   have to do is get every single form that we have has to

 

          6   go on line.  We purchased Adobe Acrobat program so that

 

          7   anyone can access it.  It's just user friendly by any

 

          8   computer.  So I'm doing that.

 

          9             I'm taking all the forms I have typeset them.

 

         10   I'm trying to make them really consistent which is very

 

         11   time consuming and getting them into the Adobe format

 

         12   and that is something that was required by the

 

         13   legislature.  I don't know whether that's good or bad

 

         14   thing for us, but it will be there.

 

         15             And that's it.

 

         16             MR. LESSLY:  And the deadline for all of this

 

         17   is January the 23rd?

 

         18             MS. LYONS:  Yes.

 

         19             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Thank you, Maureen.

 

         20             With that we are in recess for lunch.

 

         21             DR. TITUS:  You want to give a time?

 

         22             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Half an hour.

 

         23             MR. HUSE:  How long are you in recess for?

 

         24             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Half an hour.

 

         25                    (A recess was taken.)

 

 

 

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          1             MADAM PRESIDENT:  We are going to continue on.

 

          2   And we are going to skip a little bit in our agenda

 

          3   under agenda item thirteen.  We have just a couple of

 

          4   those to get through.

 

          5             (Off the record -- Closed session.)

 

          6             (Back on the record.)

 

          7             MADAM PRESIDENT:  That takes us to our

 

          8   investigative committee.

 

          9             DR. BAEPLER:  I ask that be deferred to

 

         10   tomorrow.

 

         11             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  Do you want to do

 

         12   your secretary treasurer report?

 

         13             DR. BAEPLER:  We have already examined parts

 

         14   of it indirectly this morning.  Do you have all copies

 

         15   of this?  There is nothing to act on.  I can report it

 

         16   just as easily, Maureen.

 

         17             DR. ANWAR:  Is there anything we need to know?

 

         18             DR. BAEPLER:  You need to know that everything

 

         19   is all right.

 

         20             DR. TITUS:  Basically we need to know that we

 

         21   haven't spent more money than we have.

 

         22             DR. BAEPLER:  I'm really interested in the

 

         23   chair support.  If you want to take two of these, let me

 

         24   get start with this.  The top page is from July 1

 

         25   through December 4th as are both of these pages

 

 

 

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          1   approximately five months.

 

          2             This is simply a balancing of assets against

 

          3   liabilities and it doesn't tell you very much because

 

          4   you are always going to have assets match liabilities.

 

          5             The second page is of more interest because

 

          6   this actually shows the expenditures versus anticipated

 

          7   expenditures versus budget and it relates to income.

 

          8   How well we are in target or where we might miss it.

 

          9             Expenses, we are on target.  We may be over or

 

         10   a little under.  I can just generalize by saying we

 

         11   appear to be in good shape.

 

         12             There are some areas that are over budgeted to

 

         13   give us flexibility such as we discussed this morning.

 

         14   And the cash flow is coming in pretty much as

 

         15   anticipated.  So since this is the first year of

 

         16   basically biennial approach to this, I was able to get

 

         17   this yesterday.  I have examined it in some detail,

 

         18   asked some questions for clarification, and I can give

 

         19   you assurance that everything is on target.

 

         20             There are no surprises in here.

 

         21             DR. TITUS:  We need a motion to accept this or

 

         22   no?

 

         23             DR. BAEPLER:  I think it's just a report for

 

         24   your information.

 

         25             DR. TITUS:  Okay.  Thanks.

 

 

 

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          1             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Thank you, Don.  The

 

          2   committee of post licensure competency meeting, Robin,

 

          3   you were going to talk to us about that.

 

          4             DR. TITUS:  I already did earlier, and I don't

 

          5   need to go down that road.  We are meeting again this

 

          6   next week, and we will be interested to take back our

 

          7   proposal and changes.

 

          8             We are leaps and bounds --  I would say two

 

          9   thirds --  There are still people on that committee when

 

         10   we showed up there in September asking Why are we doing

 

         11   this.  And where is this coming from.  So there are

 

         12   states that are behind on that issue.

 

         13             I think everybody left that meeting

 

         14   recognizing it's out there.  We're committed on a

 

         15   nationwide basis and an international basis.

 

         16             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  And the

 

         17   administrators in workshop, Tony, you attended that.

 

         18             MR. CLARK:  I was in the seat on the 16th and

 

         19   17th for the administrators in medicine on the 16th and

 

         20   federation seminar on the 17th.  Certainly a good

 

         21   meeting.  The folks discussed several states which have

 

         22   started into the criminal --

 

         23             MR. HUSE:  We are having trouble hearing in

 

         24   Las Vegas.

 

         25             MR. CLARK:  Criminal background investigations

 

 

 

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          1   for licensure.

 

          2             They talked about managing the malpractice

 

          3   mess proceedings to discipline the correlation of

 

          4   malpractice to competency.

 

          5             There was a letter of physicians health

 

          6   presentation and a common verification initiative that

 

          7   is out there to try to assist doctors who want to apply

 

          8   in more than one state and make it easier to get them

 

          9   their licenses.

 

         10             During the seminar the next day put on by the

 

         11   federation they discussed legal implications, the

 

         12   Internet for medical boards, and primarily talked about

 

         13   physicians practicing medicine by the Internet.

 

         14   Internet medical education, Internet board meetings and

 

         15   things of that nature.  It was a worth while meeting for

 

         16   both days.

 

         17             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  Thank you.  And the

 

         18   federation of association of regulatory boards, Steve,

 

         19   you want to do that one?

 

         20             MR. QUINN:  I attended this seminar in

 

         21   Portland, Oregon for regulatory attorneys.  It was

 

         22   basically a two and a half day seminar or three day

 

         23   seminar.  Three day, four days, two full days and a half

 

         24   day.  Thursday through Sunday.

 

         25             It was very interesting to me having come from

 

 

 

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          1   the area of general practice and litigation and going to

 

          2   the area of administrative law dealing with boards.  It

 

          3   was very interesting to me dealing with administrative

 

          4   law learning the intricacies of administrative law.

 

          5             It went over the areas of discovery in

 

          6   disciplinary proceedings, licensure disciplinary

 

          7   actions, testing, and issues involving the integrity of

 

          8   the testing procedure or breaches of the testing

 

          9   procedures, enforcement, post activity litigation.

 

         10             And I'm pleased to tell you it appears that by

 

         11   reason of this teleconferencing equipment, Nevada

 

         12   appears to be head and shoulders in be front of

 

         13   everybody in the nation, at least, everybody represented

 

         14   at the conference.  Nobody has this sort of equipment

 

         15   even though they have to deal with the geographical

 

         16   discrepancies or disparities that we have to deal with.

 

         17   And it was -- I thought it was an excellent seminar for

 

         18   me.

 

         19             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Well, great.  Thank you.

 

         20             MR. LEGARZA:  Does this tell you what two guys

 

         21   have been staying home and working.

 

         22             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I think it's nice that we

 

         23   have had such involvement in various workshops.

 

         24             And one more I think, Tony, you attended the

 

         25   federation workshop on the impaired physician in Las

 

 

 

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          1   Vegas.

 

          2             MR. CLARK:  I did on the 15th of November.

 

          3   They talked about the history of physicians' health

 

          4   programs, and potentially impairing conditions and some

 

          5   of the treatments for them.

 

          6             They talked about intervention evaluation and

 

          7   treatment, monitoring and guidelines and standards for

 

          8   the physicians' health programs and the effective

 

          9   interface that the physicians held programs that need to

 

         10   develop with the state medical boards in the various

 

         11   states.  It was a worth while day.  It was very

 

         12   interesting.

 

         13             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  Thank you.  Should we

 

         14   move on to do a few of the reports?  I still think we

 

         15   are okay on time.

 

         16             Agenda number ten our executive staff reports

 

         17   and, Larry, I will start off with --

 

         18             MR. LESSLY:  In your agenda book you have

 

         19   information on the international meeting to be held in

 

         20   April, I believe.  If, in fact, anyone from this board

 

         21   planned to attend that meeting as a delegate, we need to

 

         22   do that.

 

         23             I would like to see Tony go to that meeting as

 

         24   a delegate.  In addition, I would like to see Tony go to

 

         25   the administers and medicine meeting as far as the

 

 

 

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          1   federation's annual meeting is concerned.  Probably the

 

          2   four lawyers, chief license specialist Laurie the new

 

          3   deputy executive director from the staff.  We do need to

 

          4   know who of you want to go so we can take care of the

 

          5   early registration reports.  It's in Washington, D.C.

 

          6             DR. TITUS:  I'm going to go.

 

          7             MS. JONES:  I'm going.

 

          8             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I think I'm a delegate, and

 

          9   I'm going.

 

         10             MR. LESSLY:  You are going.  So we will name

 

         11   you our delegate.  My way and Cheryl's way is paid so we

 

         12   are a free as far as travel is concerned.

 

         13             MADAM PRESIDENT:  The date again is in April?

 

         14             MS. LYONS:  It starts on the 29th.  So just

 

         15   four of you so far?

 

         16             MS. KIRCH:  When do you have to register?

 

         17             MS. LYONS:  We have time.

 

         18             MS. KIRCH:  I'm still kind of looking.  I was

 

         19   just curious.

 

         20             MS. LYONS:  We can still register.

 

         21             DR. TITUS:  You went to San Diego, correct?

 

         22   Did you go to Chicago?  I will tell you after how

 

         23   disgusted I was with the San Diego meeting going to the

 

         24   Chicago meeting was a tremendous improvement.

 

         25             I was just commenting on this federation

 

 

 

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          1   meetings nationally the one in San Diego needed a lot to

 

          2   be desired and many of us who attended -- that meeting

 

          3   was not adequative representatives of the states

 

          4   involved.  And they improved it dramatically in Chicago,

 

          5   and I encourage anybody on this board to go to the one

 

          6   in Washington D.C.

 

          7             MR. LESSLY:  I was on the program committee

 

          8   for this upcoming event.

 

          9             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Do we need a motion for

 

         10   that?

 

         11             MS. LESSLY:  I have one more.  I need Laurie

 

         12   Munson be authorized to go back to the east coast --

 

         13             MS. LYONS:  No.  That's me.  I'm supposed to

 

         14   say that.  System Automation puts on a users conference

 

         15   each year, and it's held at their offices in Maryland.

 

         16   Laurie should go to that so she can be more familiar

 

         17   with System Automation.  They are the software people

 

         18   that write the licensing 2000 program.

 

         19             And in part of the federation's audit they

 

         20   recommended that we consider starting to use the

 

         21   accounting module our license 2000 for accounting rather

 

         22   than using Quick Books to keep track of registration

 

         23   fees versus deferred registration fees, et cetera.

 

         24             We are not using a module that's available to

 

         25   us because we never started doing it.  It's never been

 

 

 

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          1   done.  It would make a lot of sense because it would

 

          2   have everything immediately tie in rather than having to

 

          3   reconcile.

 

          4             I would like Debbie to also go to this meeting

 

          5   in Maryland with Laurie because they are going to have a

 

          6   half-day session on the accounting module.  So it will

 

          7   be perfect for her to learn.

 

          8             MS. LESSLY:  Can we do that in one motion?

 

          9             DR. TITUS:  So moved.

 

         10             MS. JONES:  Second.

 

         11             MADAM PRESIDENT:  There is a motion to

 

         12   approve.  All in favor?

 

         13             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Aye.

 

 

         14             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Chair votes in favor as

 

         15   well.  Motion carries.

 

         16             MR. LESSLY:  In your agenda booklet with the

 

         17   federation materials there is correspondence with

 

         18   respect to committee payments and if you wish to serve

 

         19   on a committee?  I would suggest we get a letter in to

 

         20   the committee about -- to our in-coming president about

 

         21   your desire to do so.

 

         22             In addition, there is a call for candidate

 

         23   nominations which has been included.  I believe we have

 

         24   a person on this board who might be a nice available

 

         25   candidate for election of the board of directors.

 

 

 

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          1             And I would like to nominate Dr. Baepler as

 

          2   our candidate for the board of directors, and I guess

 

          3   that would be our request that he be placed in

 

          4   nomination.

 

          5             We would need a motion that the board nominate

 

          6   him or the board present his name to the nominating

 

          7   committee with the position of a member of the board of

 

          8   directors.  And he needs to express on the record his

 

          9   intention of accepting that position if so elected.

 

         10             DR. BAEPLER:  I would be pleased to accept it.

 

         11   It never occurred to me and certainly was not my idea to

 

         12   run.  It came from an external, two sources, I guess,

 

         13   outside of this board.  But I think it would be

 

         14   interesting to run.  It won't be easy.  But we will give

 

         15   it a little campaign.  And worst that can happen is I

 

         16   will try again next year.

 

         17             MR. LESSLY:  I guess we need a motion to

 

         18   nominate.

 

         19             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  All in favor?

 

         20             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Aye.

 

         21             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Opposed?  Motion carries.

 

         22             MR. LESSLY:  I ask that the audit discussion

 

         23   be deferred until tomorrow.

 

         24             I would -- there is a suggestion that the next

 

         25   item on consideration of hiring the federation to do the

 

 

 

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          1   audit of the licensing procedures and policy be

 

          2   deferred.

 

          3             The audit that was recently concluded

 

          4   developed into that aspect of our operations and found

 

          5   us on the forefront nationwide of licensing.  So I would

 

          6   question whether we really need to consider that audit

 

          7   at this point.

 

          8             So I ask we defer that which, assuming you are

 

          9   willing to do that, would bring us to the consideration

 

         10   of approval of revised organizational and operational

 

         11   charts, personnel policies and officer committee and job

 

         12   transcription manual for 2004.  That is Maureen's item.

 

         13             DR. BAEPLER:  While she is passing this out

 

         14   when will we get an updated copy of NRS 630?

 

         15             MR. LESSLY:  This is the one I asked her to

 

         16   make, at least, a thirty minutes presentation on.

 

         17             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Our booklet.

 

         18             MS. LYONS:  Please hold these for your

 

         19   reference.  Don't leave them behind.  Okay.  Take them

 

         20   home.  Put them under your pillows so at night you have

 

         21   something to read.

 

         22             MR. LESSLY:  If you open the book to the

 

         23   organizational chart, that explains everything that the

 

         24   -- in the book job description have all been cleaned up

 

         25   to address changes in the titles.  You will note that we

 

 

 

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          1   now reflect two investigative committees, one chaired by

 

          2   the secretary, one board member required to be a public

 

          3   member, one consisting of three members, at least, one

 

          4   to be a public member.

 

          5             We are showing the deputy executive secretary

 

          6   special counsel did the same personnel block with my

 

          7   position.

 

          8             Likewise, with the general counsel and deputy

 

          9   general counsel.  Likewise, with the deputy executive

 

         10   secretary administrator.  Those reflect the three

 

         11   persons who have been brought on board to replace us.

 

         12             The license specialists number has been

 

         13   increased to four which you did last meeting.

 

         14             Investigators are increased to four and the

 

         15   job descriptions have been amended to reflect all of

 

         16   those new titles in an update.

 

         17             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Larry, is the new

 

         18   malpractice review committee on this organization there

 

         19   at this time?

 

         20             MR. LESSLY:  No, it is not.

 

         21             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Can we make that addition?

 

         22             MR. LESSLY:  I was waiting to see if any of

 

         23   you would be willing to come back to a second meeting.

 

         24   We can add that.  We certainly can.  We can add that

 

         25   above the internal affairs committee.  Same command

 

 

 

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          1   line.  I assume we will continue with that.

 

          2             DR. BAEPLER:  I think we have to, yeah.

 

          3             MR. LESSLY:  Any questions?  I guess I need a

 

          4   motion to accept the manual.

 

          5             MS. JONES:  So noted.

 

          6             MS. KIRCH:  Second.

 

          7             MADAM PRESIDENT:  There is a motion with the

 

          8   addition of the malpractice committee.  All in favor?

 

          9             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Aye.

 

         10             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Chair votes in favor.  And

 

         11   motion carries.

 

         12             MS. LYONS:  Under tab ten you have proposed

 

         13   dates for meetings of this board for calendar year 2004.

 

         14   Those dates are not something we are recommending be

 

         15   carved in stone.  We simply took dates that seemed to

 

         16   parallel with the same period of time between the

 

         17   meetings we used for 2003.  So you do need to decide on

 

         18   which dates you have meetings.

 

         19             MADAM PRESIDENT:  I ask we would change the

 

         20   March from the 5th and 6th to either the weekend before

 

         21   or weekend after.  The weekend after would be the 12th

 

         22   and 13th of March.

 

         23             MS. JONES:  I think that's a wonderful idea.

 

         24             DR. TITUS:  That works better for me.

 

         25             DR. ANJUM:  We are going to change it?

 

 

 

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          1             MADAM PRESIDENT:  So it will be March 13th,

 

          2   14th rather than the 5th and 6th with the investigative

 

          3   committee meeting on the 11th.

 

          4             DR. TITUS:  March 11th with investigative

 

          5   committee?  Okay.

 

          6             MR. LESSLY:  Are the rest of the dates

 

          7   acceptable?

 

          8             MS. KIRCH:  How are you doing the

 

          9   investigative committees?  Are you having both of them

 

         10   come up?

 

         11             MR. LESSLY:  Don't worry about that.

 

         12             DR. BAEPLER:  We came up this time.  You did

 

         13   not come up this time.  It's up to the chair.

 

         14             MR. LESSLY:  It's up to the chair.

 

         15             MS. KIRCH:  I was just curious so that --

 

         16             MR. LESSLY:  Actually, Cheryl and I don't care

 

         17   what you do in September.

 

         18             MS. JONES:  I don't either.

 

         19             MS. LYONS:  We are okay with that?  So I think

 

         20   we are okay.  That's the date we always seem to have a

 

         21   conflict.

 

 

         22             MADAM PRESIDENT:  So do I have a motion to

 

         23   approve this schedule as presented with that one

 

         24   revision?

 

         25             MS. KIRCH:  So moved.

 

 

 

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          1             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Is there a second?

 

          2             MEMBER OF THE BOARD:  Second.

 

          3             MADAM PRESIDENT:  All in favor?

 

          4             MEMBERS OF THE BOARD:  Aye.

 

          5             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Getting tired.

 

          6             MR. LESSLY:  The next issue is the status of

 

          7   board office space.  Tony Clark will talk to you about

 

          8   that.

 

          9             MR. CLARK:  Let me show you a little layout of

 

         10   the first floor downstairs.  We have taken an additional

 

         11   540 square feet.  This shows you how it's been laid out

 

         12   for use by the licensure folks.

 

         13             And the room has already been reconfigured.  A

 

         14   hole cut in the wall, a doorway cut into the wall

 

         15   between the two offices.  It's been repainted.  It is

 

         16   being recarpeted.

 

         17             The desks will be set up in there Thursday and

 

         18   Friday of this coming week, and the licensing folks will

 

         19   be ready to start a week from Monday in their new

 

         20   facilities downstairs.

 

         21             DR. TITUS:  Can we look back at the meeting

 

         22   schedules?  I was thinking in September that's Labor Day

 

         23   weekend.  I don't know if it's a conflict.

 

         24             MS. LYONS:  Labor Day weekend is the 6th.

 

         25             DR. TITUS:  That will be the Labor Day

 

 

 

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          1   weekend, and that will be a conflict for me.

 

          2             MS. LYONS:  No.  That's bad.  That's a good

 

          3   point.  Sorry, Tony.

 

          4             MR. CLARK:  That's okay.

 

          5             DR. TITUS:  I'm usually on a river unavailable

 

          6   by cell phone.

 

          7             MS. LYONS:  September 10th and 11th.

 

          8             MS. KIRCH:  Thank you.

 

          9             DR. TITUS:  Do we need a new motion or just

 

         10   revise it?

 

         11             MADAM PRESIDENT:  We'll just revise it.

 

         12             MS. LYONS:  We'll revise that and add that in.

 

         13             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Carry on, Tony.

 

         14             MR. CLARK:  That concludes my presentation of

 

         15   the office space.  Unless you have questions.

 

         16             You will note that there is room for an

 

         17   additional desk to be put in if we need an additional

 

         18   licensing specialist.  So we have plenty of room down

 

         19   there.

 

         20             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Looks good.

 

         21             MR. LESSLY:  The next item is the item that

 

         22   was labeled September 4th and 5th consideration of the

 

         23   board office to be located in Las Vegas.

 

         24             DR. BAEPLER:  We have an experimental program

 

         25   now that the Clark County Medical Association has

 

 

 

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          1   indicated to us is --

 

          2             MR. HUSE:  We cannot hear in Las Vegas.

 

          3             DR. BAEPLER:  We have this experimental set up

 

          4   that occasionally we forget to turn our buttons on.

 

          5             However, it's been indicated to us that this

 

          6   will meet the needs of the people in Las Vegas.  Before

 

          7   we take that item off the table to discuss whether we

 

          8   need office space in Las Vegas, I would like to give

 

          9   this a chance.

 

         10             Budget considerations are such that we

 

         11   shouldn't even attempt it before the next fiscal year,

 

         12   in any event, and by then we will have some experience

 

         13   with it.  I will suggest we just leave it on the table.

 

         14             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.

 

         15             MR. LESSLY:  That is the end of that agenda.

 

         16             DR. TITUS:  Should we go back to --

 

         17             DR. BAEPLER:  Interviews.

 

         18             MADAM PRESIDENT:  So that concludes agenda

 

         19   number ten.  And I think we will move back now to our

 

         20   appearances.

 

         21             And we, I believe, left off -- our next one

 

         22   was Dr. Bernstein and that is in book two.

 

         23             DR. TITUS:  I move to close the meeting.

 

         24   (Whereupon the meeting entered into closed session for

 

         25             the remainder of the day, 3:45 p.m.)

 

 

 

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          1     RENO, NEVADA; SATURDAY, DECEMBER 6, 2003; 9:00 A.M.

 

          2                            -o0o-

 

          3             THE COURT:  Okay.  I'm going to call the

 

          4   continuation of Nevada State Board of Medical Examiners

 

          5   meeting to order.

 

          6             Can you hear us down there?

 

          7             MR. HUSE:  Yes.  We can hear you now, and we

 

          8   have a picture now.  We just got it.  Thank you.

 

          9             THE COURT:  Great.  Okay.  This morning we

 

         10   really have the remainder of our appearances so the

 

         11   majority of this meeting will be going back and forth

 

         12   between open and closed session to let our audience

 

         13   members know there will be times when we are in closed

 

         14   session.

 

         15             And we left off late last night.  Our next

 

         16   appearance would --  No.  We can't do your investigative

 

         17   because Joel isn't here.  We'll wait.

 

         18             So Dr. Barnet is in book two under E.

 

         19             MS. KIRCH:  I move we go into closed session.

 

         20             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Okay.  We'll go into closed

 

         21   session.

 

         22                      (Closed session.)

 

         23   (Two matters were heard off the record due to the court

 

         24         reporter not having notice of open session.)

 

         25             MADAM PRESIDENT:  Anything else?

 

 

 

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          1             DR. BAEPLER:  Move we adjourn.

 

          2             DR. ANJUM:  Second.

 

          3             THE COURT:  There is a motion to adjourn, and

 

          4   we are now adjourned.

 

          5   (Whereupon the proceedings were concluded at 12:45 p.m.)

 

          6                            -o0o-

 

          7

 

          8

 

          9

 

         10

 

         11

 

         12

 

         13

 

         14

 

         15

 

         16

 

         17

 

         18

 

         19

 

         20

 

         21

 

         22

 

         23

 

         24

 

         25

 

 

 

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          1   STATE OF NEVADA,     )

                                   )  ss.

          2   COUNTY OF WASHOE.    )

 

          3

 

          4             I, LISA A. YOUNG, a Certified Court

 

          5   Reporter in and for the state of Nevada, do hereby

 

          6   certify:

 

          7             That the foregoing proceedings were taken by

 

          8   me at the time and place therein set forth; that the

 

          9   proceedings were recorded stenographically by me and

 

         10   thereafter transcribed via computer under my

 

         11   supervision; that the foregoing is a full, true and

 

         12   correct transcription of the proceedings to the best of

 

         13   my knowledge, skill and ability.

 

         14             I further certify that I am not a relative nor

 

         15   an employee of any attorney or any of the parties, nor

 

         16   am I financially or otherwise interested in this action.

 

         17             I declare under penalty of perjury under the

 

         18   laws of the state of Nevada that the foregoing

 

         19   statements are true and correct.

 

         20             Dated in Reno, Nevada this 20th day of

 

         21   December 2003.

 

         22                              ___________________________

                                         LISA A. YOUNG, CCR #353

         23

 

         24

 

         25

 

 

 

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          1   STATE OF NEVADA,     )

                                   )  ss.

          2   COUNTY OF WASHOE.    )

 

          3

 

          4             I, LISA A. YOUNG, a Certified Court

 

          5   Reporter in and for the state of Nevada, do hereby

 

          6   certify:

 

          7             That the foregoing proceedings were taken by

 

          8   me at the time and place therein set forth; that the

 

          9   proceedings were recorded stenographically by me and

 

         10   thereafter transcribed via computer under my

 

         11   supervision; that the foregoing is a full, true and

 

         12   correct transcription of the proceedings to the best of

 

         13   my knowledge, skill and ability.

 

         14             I further certify that I am not a relative nor

 

         15   an employee of any attorney or any of the parties, nor

 

         16   am I financially or otherwise interested in this action.

 

         17             I declare under penalty of perjury under the

 

         18   laws of the state of Nevada that the foregoing

 

         19   statements are true and correct.

 

         20             Dated in Reno, Nevada this 20th day of

 

         21   December 2003.

 

         22                              ___________________________

                                         LISA A. YOUNG, CCR #353

         23

 

         24

 

         25

 

 

 

                     PEGGY HOOGS & ASSOCIATES    (775) 327-4460